SuperMoto Junkie banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
can be seen here. snapped a few pics just to compare them for those who haven't seen them side by side. Michelin Pilot Intermediate slicks on the right, ContiRace Attack tires on the left. you can see the huge difference in profile and side contact patch on the Michelin vs. the Conti on both front and rear tires. both tires are brand new. first 3 pictures are rear tires. second 3 pictures are front tires.

edit: sorry for the huge picture size.






 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Wow, quite the difference! Have you used a set of the new Contis yet? I'm considering trying a pair myself...
just got them in today. i had the Conti SM's before with good results. never used the ContiRace ones yet. from what i know, they are pretty damn sticky for the trackdays though!

i'll add that the when riding with the slicks there is a very fine tipping point. the bike either wants stand up, or lay over. the first time riding them it feels like the front is about to tuck because it falls in so quickly. there is much less progressive lean like you get with a street tire. however, once you lay it over into that sweet spot you can RAIL those tires through the corner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,384 Posts
How about weight, longevity and price ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,999 Posts
Please don't tell me you are trying to look at the profile without mounting and airing up the tires..............:headscrat

That is like trying to compare a uncooked Filet Mignon against a New York........:laughingr



How about you mount ALL the tires on the same width rims and air them up and then start the profiling process or what you are looking at it a lie from the molds..........ok??
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,598 Posts
Please don't tell me you are trying to look at the profile without mounting and airing up the tires..............:headscrat

That is like trying to compare a uncooked Filet Mignon against a New York........:laughingr



How about you mount ALL the tires on the same width rims and air them up and then start the profiling process or what you are looking at it a lie from the molds..........ok??
what tfunk said... can't compare profiles with a tyre just sitting there.

most michelin tyres will look like that off a rim because of the way they fabricate them. the first generation pilot powers followed the same curve when off the rim, and those were the same like any run of the mill DOT tyre.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Please don't tell me you are trying to look at the profile without mounting and airing up the tires..............:headscrat

That is like trying to compare a uncooked Filet Mignon against a New York........:laughingr



How about you mount ALL the tires on the same width rims and air them up and then start the profiling process or what you are looking at it a lie from the molds..........ok??
plus one :anim_peep:
what tfunk said... can't compare profiles with a tyre just sitting there.

most michelin tyres will look like that off a rim because of the way they fabricate them. the first generation pilot powers followed the same curve when off the rim, and those were the same like any run of the mill DOT tyre.
i understand your point...but unless you are disagreeing with anything i said about comparing them after actually riding on them i think you all are just nitpicking. i know you all know what the difference in feel, grip, and profile is between race and DOT tires.

this was just meant to be a quick visual comparison. obviously i don't have multiple sets of rims to mount them on. call it an exaggerated example if you want.

i think my statements about their differences are still valid whether the pictures are properly scientific or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
How about weight, longevity and price ??
i was curious about weight myself. don't have a scale though. by my calibrated elbow, they don't seem too far off. it was kinda hard for me to tell which was lighter just by picking them up. if anything i'd say the michelin front was a little lighter than the conti, but the rears were pretty damn close.

again, i didn't actually measure to take this with a grain of salt.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,598 Posts
this was just meant to be a quick visual comparison. obviously i don't have multiple sets of rims to mount them on. call it an exaggerated example if you want.
the profile of a tyre can change significantly when they are mounted on a rim, which kind of defeats the point of posting pics of 2 unmounted tyres I reckon.

in the end all you can do is run them in simular conditions to find out how both will react, then you'll know for sure. I've had DOT tyres that felt better in the handling department compared to certain race tyres out there, not the general course of action but I did encounter it before. if you're comparing 2 same size tyres, the profile plays a role but the other main differences in handling characterisitics will come from the flexibility of the carcas the weight of the tyre which is directly related to the unsprung weight and the tyre pressure you're running, can't neglect those things either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
the profile of a tyre can change significantly when they are mounted on a rim, which kind of defeats the point of posting pics of 2 unmounted tyres I reckon.

in the end all you can do is run them in simular conditions to find out how both will react, then you'll know for sure. I've had DOT tyres that felt better in the handling department compared to certain race tyres out there, not the general course of action but I did encounter it before. if you're comparing 2 same size tyres, the profile plays a role but the other main differences in handling characterisitics will come from the flexibility of the carcas the weight of the tyre which is directly related to the unsprung weight and the tyre pressure you're running, can't neglect those things either.
yes, of course.

all i was trying to illustrate really is the difference in profile and edge grip between the two. the generalization that race tires are more pointed with a larger side contact patch still holds true and can be seen by the exaggerated pictures shown. that's what i wanted. i wasn't aiming at a full blown technical write up where i analyze every single difference down to which tire pressure to run. that could go on forever. everybody always has something to say in a tire thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,673 Posts
You have to make sure you start off by giving all the information correctly, tire size, picts with tires mounted on same size rims, you cannot make generalizations saying race tires are more vee'd, it depends on who makes the tire as well the aspect ratio...
One of Skully's task's here is to make sure when technical information is given that all the information is based on basic facts and specifications...back to the tire aspect ratios and mounted on wheel picts.... after that opinions on handling etc is that right of the rider/you and the readers....opinions on this site are encouraged and appreciated..
So post up the sizes and show pictures mounted on wheels, If you only have one rear wheel show two different pictures... and give your ride report, we all appreciate your contribution just have to make sure you start off on the right foot I think what you are doing will be very help full.....:bowdown:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,658 Posts
Interesting to see the side by side shot though - Curious to see mounted as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,912 Posts
That rear looks tall and narrow at the center compared to most DOT street tires. Fronts looks pretty similar to me. I guess stability is sacrificed to some extent for quick handling and grip at max lean angles.:hmmm:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Ride Report (Slicks)

Ride Report for the slicks:

bike: 2004 KTM 525 EXC
rider skill: intermediate race/trackday
tire size: (i believe) 120/60-17 and 160/63-17 on 5" rear rim

Turn in - the sensation of these tires on turn in is something that takes a little getting used to if you're coming from a DOT tire. a DOT tire has a typically linear progression of what i will call lean rate as you get the bike over. these tires have a normal lean rate at low angle, and then drop in with a very high lean rate. by lean rate what i mean is that the tire goes from standing up to full lean quite quickly and there is less metering in between compared to a DOT tire. the advantage is that once you slam the bike over into full lean, it is absolutely stuck. it feels more like 'rails' than DOT tires i've ridden. very confidence inspiring when leaned over.

in the dry where grip is abundant, this profile and feeling is very advantageous. you can wait very long before turn in and then slam the bike over on the side of the tire with a lot of speed and confidence. in the wet, it is a bit unnerving. the lack of metering and high lean rate make it a bit challenging to hold/initiate a given lean angle without it wanting to drop in for more.

as far as feedback, these tires are great. when the grip goes away, it goes away with plenty of warning. i have yet to crash on these tires in a paved environment. i can always tell when i am on the edge of grip before i lose it. if/when it does go completely it goes in such a fashion that it is recoverable. it seems like there is a large cushion of grip with these specific tires. it's confidence inspiring enough that lack of grip is not something that crosses my mind until the tires actually start telling me and then i know that they still aren't going to just slide out from underneath me. everything is very controlled.

wear and pressure: i was running 21 psi cold, no warmers, front and rear and that seems to be the ticket for these tires. any higher and they gave away grip to chattering. i haven't found a reason to go much lower and my tire wear hasn't indicated a need. i don't own warmers as of yet so i rely on my own riding to heat them up. right off the track after a full session with the tire, carcass, and rim heated the pressure would climb to between 26-27lbs every time. it was like clockwork. it has gotten to the point where i don't check very much because they are so consistent. set them at the beginning of the day off the truck, heat them up, check once, and leave them alone. the front obviously wears much slower than the rear. i think 2 rears to a single front in a race/trackday environment would probably be perfect. i will take some pictures of the wear after my next trackday. i've had 2 dry trackdays, a race, and a day in the rain with these tires so far. i don't expect more than 2 more days out of the rear and that's with it being flipped for more even wear and longevity.

i've almost worn out these slicks so a report on those ContiRace DOT tires should be up before the end of the season. i'll be lucky if i see 2 more days out of the rear slick right now and i have as many as 4 race weekends in the next 5 weeks. :burnout:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
update:

no pictures yet. forgot to take some at the track and haven't taken any off my phone yet. i was only able to get one more day out of that michelin rear. both the front and rear were definitely heat cycled and cashed out on my last day. i went to change them for my trackday this past weekend, that's when the interesting things happen.

the Contis are a really hard carcass tire. they have steel belts lining the bead of the tire. i change my tires by hand and this was a REAL pain in the ass. i actually had so much tension on the tire that i snapped a bunch of the steel belts. the bead was ruined, and i eventually had to scrap the tire. if you are changing tires by hand, do not do it with these contis. i ended up flipping the michelin front and running that. the rear i was able to get on with a tire changer (it helps to have friends). also very hard carcass with steel belted beads.

ride report:
i have never directly compared a harder carcass tire to a softer carcass tire, so this was an eye opening experience for me. important to note, i don't use tire warmers.
the behavior of the conti was not what i have decided i prefer. it is relatively slow to heat up, and throughout the whole day never actually looked like it got hot. there was never any rippling, balling, beading, or anything. it just looked like i rode it around on the street pretty quick. it looked nothing like a hot race tire...ever.
acceleration: the action of the tire under acceleration was my least favorite part. when the michelin was on the edge of traction, it would squirm a bit and search for traction before fully sliding. when it did slide, it was very progressive and controllable. this conti, with the hard carcass, does not squirm at all. there is no searching for traction (looks/feels kind of like pumping in the shock) before it slides. it is just traction or no traction. when it slides it is not as progressive as i would like.
edge grip: of course, edge grip is slightly decreased over a full race tire. for a street tire, i would say it was actually pretty good. however, the lack of squirm or warning of loss of grip while on the edge really made me feel uneasy. pushing the tire to the edge without the confidence that i had feedback before a slide was a real problem.
braking: it seems kind of weird to say this, but the lack of grip while sliding was a bit odd. with the michelin i could brake VERY hard (lift the rear and set it down into a slide...see video below). the continental felt...numb and slippery almost. the slide under braking was less progressive and less predictable i guess.
turn-in: the profile of the rear actually seemed pretty good. it did slow turn-in a little bit, but not enough that i'm really complaining about it. i would actually say it was pretty good.

overall: as far as a street tire goes, the grip is pretty good. the behavior of a soft vs. hard carcass tire is all up to rider preference. personally, after this test i have found that my preference is the soft carcass. without warmers i feel more confident with the quicker heat up and i prefer the squirm and feedback i get from a softer carcass. others may not like all that moving around.

just to show you how my riding differed with both tires, here are some videos of me riding with the two different tires.

michelin front/rear:

michelin front, Conti rear:

you can see the laziness getting on the gas with the conti rear and the lack of lean angle. you can also see the difference in braking. lack of feel/confidence in that rear tire...
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top