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I run a 04'KTM 525 SMC (03'SX chassis & susp).
The suspension is stock...BUT... the SX has/had the closest thing to SMR suspension as far a tunability out-of-the-box.
Like everything posted up to this point, I pay attention to what the bike is doing, and where it is doing it. I'll make minor adjustments to my baseline pending weather, temp, track layout, etc. Rarely is it more then a turn or two on the clickers, or the preload.
I race with guys that have had the full monty done to the suspension and can still hang with them.
Until I can justify "needing" pro aftermarket tuning, I will work with what I have. (it's like a slipper clutch...I'd love to have one, but will it make me $1000 faster?
Another note...I also use the bike for offroad/enduro riding, with the same suspension...The beauty of the suspension that came on my bike is that is does have a huge range of adjustability.
 

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I don't understand how free sag can be more important than race sag. you can have a race sag of 5mm but the difference between a 150lb rider and a 250lb rider would be huge. free sag doesn't take the rider weight into account at all...
That is what my MX background also told me.....but he is the Pro RR suspension guy. Remember that was road racing we were talking about.

I emailed Don and asked if he would like to join in on this discussion.


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you would set race sag (for road racing) first and measure up yur static sag. If you aren't in the static sag ball park, you would have to change springs (spring rate) to achieve the proper static sag.:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
You still have to have the right spring for your weight and riding ability. But I think, both measurement can be useful. The best is just to test a few different spring in different conditions and find what works best for you.
 

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You still have to have the right spring for your weight and riding ability.
I never thought spring rate was related to riding ability. This is interesting.

Would softer = less skill? or the other way around?

Can you provide some more insight on this?
 

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softer = less skill..?

not entirely.. harder basically means, u can spin out the rear much easier wen u gas it.. spin out, react to counter.. dont spin, no need to.. i share an sxv 5.5 with my girlfriend n am always pissed on why she sets the bike soft.. but we ride around the same timing so if it works for her, i dont think she's less skilled..
 

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softer = less skill..?

not entirely.. harder basically means, u can spin out the rear much easier wen u gas it.. spin out, react to counter.. dont spin, no need to.. i share an sxv 5.5 with my girlfriend n am always pissed on why she sets the bike soft.. but we ride around the same timing so if it works for her, i dont think she's less skilled..
hopefully she sets it softer because she's at least a little lighter than you... I hope:eek:
 

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great post!! thx all people helping out there.

but all I need now it a reliable setup.

My husk smr510 its practially at standard factory setup, rider [email protected]

But the bike feels hard like a brick, and bike won't advice when starts to lose grip, I mean bike is not predictable.
Setting up a higher value rider sag like 90mm will make it more reliable to ride?
 

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I sent a link to this post to my friend who is a tech at Traxxion. This is what he emailed me about SM sag.

we don't do much motard work here. A bit of flat track, most notably team suzuki flat track anf moroney's flat track. There framers are the moto x bikes used for the short tracks and tt's. they run about 10mm free sag in the f&r with 20 to 25 mm rider sag. I think that would be a good place to start on a motard. Hope that helps a little. Let me know if there's anything else.
see ya, Don


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I've talked with one of the long time employees at Öhlins. He said that on the RR-bike you can use 0mm sag if its a light bike like a 125. For supermoto we're in the correct range 5-15mm.

He also said that it is important that you have the correct spring for your weight, and you measure this to be 1/3rd of the full stroke.
 

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headshake , how do i get rid of it? other wise i am really happy with the bike. suspension has had the full treatment 07 crf450.
I read over the other posts and this might be too late of an answer but try this out.

From road racing I have had head shake taught as a couple of things people have not listed yet.

1.) Too much weight on the front wheel. Corrected by removing ride height in rear spring or softer spring (rear) or lowering front forks (pushing them down in clamps).

2.) You are getting tired coming out of a fast corner and you pull your self forward with your arms. This puts your bodies weight to the outside handle bars and a little bump causes the head shake. (Imagine the tires contact patch like an oval, when you pull up on the bars you make that oval go a little right than left. With your arms on the bars far out, it become magnified and happens in split seconds back and forth thus causing headshake)

That’s all I have, not a big SM guy but just started racing them and still using my professional racing suspension guru as we learn. So thanks for the bits of info I got from the postings.

And the best way you can tell a good suspension mechanic from a rookie. See what he does with a new bike. Saw him get a new KTM and took it apart to the frame only to put it back together making sure everything was setup proper(loc-tite, proper Nm of each bolt, and such). He even took the pistons in the forks to resurface the pistons face to make sure they are perfectly smooth on the shims. Thought he was crazy but never seen his bike break down or lose a part.
 

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Gary, any tips on reducing front end chatter on a Honda CRF450? I know you've got tons of experience on a Honda and I'm almost at my wits end trying to resolve the issue. Even the folks who revalved the suspension are kinda stumped. The only thing they could recommend is higher tire pressure.

http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?t=60360
 

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You still have to have the right spring for your weight and riding ability. But I think, both measurement can be useful. The best is just to test a few different spring in different conditions and find what works best for you.
BINGO, I agree 100%. Lets say you have a shock spring that would be of the correct rate for 170lb rider, and you weigh 225. You could add alot of preload to the spring and get the rider sag you are looking for but the free sag is going to be nill. If you suspect you need a firmer spring and with proper rider sag you have little or no feee sag you may want a firmer spring with less pre-load. This is going to make the bike more compliant over the smaller bumps but give you bottoming resistance further in the stroke.
 

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I sent a link to this post to my friend who is a tech at Traxxion. This is what he emailed me about SM sag.

we don't do much motard work here. A bit of flat track, most notably team suzuki flat track anf moroney's flat track. There framers are the moto x bikes used for the short tracks and tt's. they run about 10mm free sag in the f&r with 20 to 25 mm rider sag. I think that would be a good place to start on a motard. Hope that helps a little. Let me know if there's anything else.
see ya, Don


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Dons a good guy with lots of RR experience, and I know they have done some SM work, just not the bulk of their buisness. I would say he probably has a good idea of starting points. If you talk to him, tell him Ryan from Lithium Motorsports says hi, I am the Midwest Traxxion service center, and have done buisness with them for quite a few years. I will be doing some suspension work on my 690 smc, see what we can come up with.
 

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I have read all the post,and some things I understand,and some are alittle confusing.I have recently bought a 2005 KTM 450SX which seems to have a great factory suspension compaired to what I'm use to.I weigh about 160-165,full gear about maybe 180lbs.Here are a few questions I hope you guys can help me out with.My bike has adjustable camber,18,and 20 degrees.On a tight track,where should I set it at?BTW,I can't afford to have a professional tech set-up my bike at the present time.I'm using Michellin Pilot race tires,120 and 160.What air pressure should I set them at?Should I set all my adjustments on the suspension to the factory service manual,or add or take away a click or 2?The forks have adjustable spring preload too.I know I have alot of questions.I would be greatful if you could give me as much advise as possible.Also,my bike was a factory SX bike so I think it has a stiffer suspension than most motocross bikes,so I think I have more to work with compaired to most bikes?I'm mechanically inclined,but suspension is defiantly my weak area.Please help a poor guy.lol
 

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Oller 1/3 of full stroke you mean 1/3 of full travel suspension?
yes

You'd might want something less than that for supermoto tho. Everybody does it differently
 

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hi guys,

i have a question about me frontwheel.

i was driving whit a michelin front and back en the suspension was super..no front chatter ore other things.now i changed my back tyre to a brigdestone and in corners were the underground is`nt flat my front is chattering.

Do you guys know what te problem is?i try`d to set it harder and softer but it is`nt helping.

Could this come by only changing the back tyre???

greetings from holland
 
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