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whats some good ways to practice doing this,, off the street. like maybe slap the knobbies back on and practice in the yard? whats the clutch/rear brake/acceleration technique? how do you do it?
 

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Skip the knobbies but go out on a gravel road or in a gravel pit. Have someone watch you or set up a camera and try to back it in without the rear wheel locking (it should only be slowing down)

Brakes first, then release clutch and steer a little into the corner

And oh, dont be afraid to "crash", because you will, several times, untill you've learned it
 

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There has been so much talk about how to back it in. I think the best advice I have ever heard is go out ride as much as you can get faster and faster and it will just happen.
 

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every time i've actually done it successfully it's been by accident. one time was racing to catch a green left turn arrow on the way to work and the planets aligned, but if i try i always get all kinds of chatter... oh well.
 

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TeamScream
ThumperTalk Member
Member # 3331
posted July 18, 2002 09:26 PM
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Mike I know how it is to be bit by the bug and want to learn how to hack, so I will tell you how I learned, I will be as descriptive as possible, this technique I learned by tring it out in parking lots late at night at the local mall, you pick the best place for you.
First thing you want to do is to try it in a straight line.

Get the bike going reasonably fast (4th or 5th gear) with PLENTY of room to spare at the end of the parking lot or wherever you are, Now
WITHOUT allowing the bike to engine brake or decellerate pull the clutch in and downshift 2 gears quickly and just as quickly modulate the clutch (release it) to about half pull (there about) while "covering" the rear brake, (meaning apply just enough rear brake to work together with the clutch to brake the rear tire free.

Now the tricky part is in understanding what is really happening here, The bike is traveling at speed (X) and the rear wheel is rotating at a speed constant with speed (X). So when you downshift and cover the rear brake while the forward speed of the bike is still (X) the rear wheel rotation speed drops well below that (X) and breaks free and the result is a slide, up to the point where the bike slows down to the same speed relative to the rear wheel rotation, then the rear wheel comes back in line with the front.

In a straight line all you will really feel is the rear wheel dancing around a bit behind you but the first lesson is to get the tire/rear wheel to break free so that you can grasp the concept.

Once you have that down you can then move to the next lesson which involves counter steering in concert with all of the above principles. This is done exactly the same way and with the exact same approach however the idea is to slide the bike in as close the the apex of the turn as possible, that concept is really the hardest to perfect because you have to train your mind to go alot deeper into the corner prior to sliding or you UNDER shoot the corner and apex too soon.

Counter steering is an ABSOLUTE in my opinion when sliding on pavement for 2 very important reasons (1) you are physically PUSHING down (away from you) on the opposite grip which forces the bike to lean which then gets you onto the edge of the (rear) tire and (2) gets the front tire pointed into the direction of the slide.

The biggest mistake you can make here is to stay on top of the bike during this process, you need to get down into the "hole" with your upper body with the majority of your weight as low as you can get it while still maintaining absolute control of the bike. If it hooks up and you are on top the result could be a high side.

The only variable I can think of would be the number of gears you need to downshift in order to get YOUR bike slide at any given speed, also another note to make is to be very aware of chatter and hop during the slide, if the rear wheel starts hopping pull the clutch in slightly and back off the brake a little.

Take it easy at first and learn to get the rear wheel to break free in a straight line first.

I am assuming with all of this you will be trying this technique on a 4 stroke machine? 2 strokes are a lot harder to perfect due to the lack of engine braking.

The speed with which you "Dump/Modulate" the clutch will have a BIG impact on how this process works or doesnt work but youll figure it out.

I hope this has helped, and I hope you remember to keep the speed up when you get to the sliding into corners part, the slower you go the more tendancy there is for the bike to hook up and high side you. Have fun.


This is the best explanation I have heard on this subject ;)
 

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Great description 007jpang! My question has to do with body position. Which way do you find more efficient, knee dragging or dirt style? Seems to me if you are trying to stay "in the pocket" you almost want to keep you feet on the pegs, keeping your body weight on the inside and low. Does it really matter?
 

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hotshot -

Take a look at all of the really good supermoto riders. None of them back it in road racer style (well, except Nicky Hayden, but he's practicing for MotoGP). They all sit up on the bike, bend it in, back it in while in the "dirt bike" position. After all, it IS a dirt bike you are riding.
 

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hotshot -

Take a look at all of the really good supermoto riders. None of them back it in road racer style (well, except Nicky Hayden, but he's practicing for MotoGP). They all sit up on the bike, bend it in, back it in while in the "dirt bike" position. After all, it IS a dirt bike you are riding.
Very true. I tend to do that anyway when taking tight corners, even though my rear tire doesn't really break loose until I get back on the gas. I'm looking forward to learning this maneuver, but I still get the heebee geebies just thinking about my LC4 slamming me topside into the asphalt though. :eek: I know, just don't think about it, right? :headshake
 

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Great description 007jpang! My question has to do with body position. Which way do you find more efficient, knee dragging or dirt style? Seems to me if you are trying to stay "in the pocket" you almost want to keep you feet on the pegs, keeping your body weight on the inside and low. Does it really matter?
Its actually real easy which style you want to use when you start riding faster. You cant ride it RR style (Nicky only does it for the camera) because you cant move around on the bike as fast as you need too. Flipping the bike from one side to another in supermoto is faster than in any other motorcycle sport.

But, you still want to be as much as you can on the inside so you do move around a little bit, but mostly with your upper body.

In fast corners like 90mph+ you can gain from using a rr-style tho. I like to be on top for control tho.
 

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First I tried to perfect "clutch" use... you will get chatter if not done properly even going strait.. Pratice going strait first, once you can go down to first and slide it strait without chatter then all ya gotta do is lean.
 

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in our area all we got is massive banked inside corners. start the slide and the rear starts hookin up real good, find some nice road gravel and it starts slippin again (

there is only one set of turns i can really get a slide going, its smoothe flat and really fast. posted limit is 20 i can take it at 50-60 but i do get the gitters coming out (its a cliff with no guard rail)........I NEED A TRACK DAY and a new set of tires
 

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007jpang, that was the best write-up on backing it in that I have ever read. It's as if everyone else is trying to keep it a secret and make it as confusing as possible. The starting-in-a-staight-line concept is great. I can't wait to get out and practice!

One thing that I was confused about, though. When you said that in the face of chatter and hop, you should let off of the brake, I'm assuming that you were referring to the front brake, right?
 

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what i started with was a super hard rear tire,.so it will not hook up.

but i like to pracrice with a burnout to see where the hook point is. just take your time and dont get over anxious, just go with the flow
 

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Well I practiced the straight line method and can get the tire to break loose that way. This weekend I'm going to try to incorporate the countersteer but I'm not clear on something. Do you iniate the turn before or after you let the clutch out?
 

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Great Info! I think I'll try the straight line stuff @ Adams the next time i'm out. They have 2 straight aways there.

Good luck DMC~
 

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Well I practiced the straight line method and can get the tire to break loose that way. This weekend I'm going to try to incorporate the countersteer but I'm not clear on something. Do you iniate the turn before or after you let the clutch out?
Depends on if you want to slide only on the clutch or if you want to use the rear brake. I usually do it at the same time as I turn in
 

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does the motor require any additional maintenence from backing it in frequently? shifting from 5th to 3rd sounds like my motor is going to expode! haha.
 
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