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Discussion Starter #1
While talking to George (Gbalias) at the races last weekend, he observed that there are many fast riders in the Beginner heats. I said, well, Sttars is a fast group, and left it at that. Now, lets take a look at George, HTM was his second Sttars race, and he entered novice too, along with beginner. He did well in both classes!

So tell me this. WTF are people who have podiumed in beginner for over a year doing in beginner heats? Is this some sort of ego stroke to beat all the old slow guys on your little two smoke? I dont care if your only pint sized. Step up! Let George be an example to you. I am going to enter novice too now. I have come in last every race I have entered in Beginner exept for last one when I came in second to last. If you guys dont want me in novice say so, because I dont want you guys in beginner either.

End of rant, goodbye.
 

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Unfortunately, there's also a cascading affect. When the winner of the Novice class is third in the Intermediate class, it keeps the beginners away from the "novice" class.

It's a shame for the true beginners who show up for the first time and race and get dead last by 40 seconds over the winner and they think...sheesh...this supermoto stuff is FAST! They get discouraged and try something else. But in reality, there's guys who don't belong in the class. I guess some peoples egos need to be stroked by the "Beginner" or Novice medals they win. :rolleyes2:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Unfortunately, there's also a cascading affect. When the winner of the Novice class is third in the Intermediate class, it keeps the beginners away from the "novice" class.

It's a shame for the true beginners who show up for the first time and race and get dead last by 40 seconds over the winner and they think...sheesh...this supermoto stuff is FAST! They get discouraged and try something else. But in reality, there's guys who don't belong in the class. I guess some peoples egos need to be stroked by the "Beginner" or Novice medals they win. :rolleyes2:
Darrin, you are wise beyond your years. And it happened just this weekend. My friend James, who has taken Gary Trachys class, came to HTM on Saturday for practice. He got so intimidated that he wouldnt come on Sunday, even with Don telling him to do it. James is prolly faster than me, yet he is seeing the very syndrome that Darrin is talking about. I think that Don is too much of a gentleman to kick these guys outta beginner, but I dont think that will be a problem with the rest of the Sttars bunch. I already made a promise to myself that my first podium in beginner will be my last beginner race. Too bad that doesnt look to be happening anytime soon!
 

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whoa there Rory.....i wouldnt say i did well in the novice class. :eek: i actually got last. i think i got last the previous time i raced novice as well.

as far as bumping up the top few contenders in the beginner class (or any class for that matter), i agree...but then again, i just started with sttars (the only group ive ever raced with BTW) so i dont know who has been on top for a long time in the same classes. i would say if the leaders are almost lapping the rest of the pack by the end of our short motos, then yea, they are probably a lil fast for the class their in. the only reason i race in the novice class is simple, and its not because im competitive at all (yet), its because otherwise it wouldnt be worth my while to drive all the way out from Las Vegas every race to get a total of 30-45 minutes of track time by only racing one class (plus travel and accommodation expenses). I know and am prepared to be at the back of the pack in novice but as i see it, im doing no harm to the others. someones got to be last. nor do i think it has an effect on the morale of the novice class riders as it does have an effect on beginner class riders to have someone blow by them like theyre standing still.

its unfortunate for your friend rory, who was intimidated to come out for the sunday events. i think he would have enjoyed it, but i also am very aware of the mental block that the situation creates. :hmmm:

i think its important to remind ourselves why we're actually doing this. for me, its about the people, the fun, being around something we're passionate about, and most importantly, making new friends in the process. :clap: i care less about where and how i finish. i think the people who are real serious about points, competition, winnings, etc....should either be racing in the upper levels or even with another sanction.

its probably a tough position for Don as well. He's an awesome guy, and talking to him at the past couple races ive attended, it made me want to be a loyal sttars attendee. i think a good idea would be to put in place some kind of placing structure and maintain some sort of logging on standings. unfortunately, the points system is hard. lets say a rider in the beginner class wins every race he attends but only makes it out to 5 or 6 races. well, the next season he might not have enough points accumulated to move up, but he's still gonna blow the rest of the pack out by continuing in the same class. so thats where the points system is inefficient.


id say the best way is to have an accurate measurement of lap times or something of the sort. just like drag racing, or pretty much any other motor sport. of course, the infrastructure will have to be put into place and all that...so i can see a long while before such accommodations are made. plus, to keep costs down, we are all limited to a certain amount of goodies to keep the racing goin.

unfortunately, at this point, we are relying on the honesty of the rest of the riders. so we can either accept that there will always be the few that cherry pick some wins or give up and try something new. as for me, im stayin for a while. i have too much fun with everyone out there. just let me know, please, if i become one of 'those guys' . :eek:


as for the lil guy who whipped up on all of us. ill give him credit for being fast. heck, i even tried to follow some of his lines for the half lap he was in my sight. but dont forget, hes not getting any better by riding with those who are slower .:boxing:

end rant.
 

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That 117 guy is a sandbaggin fag. I am not going to be able to get out to the races until Stateline or Fontana. You guys buy me a beer and I'll take care of him for you then. As far as the kid in the beginner class, he is like 3-1/2 feet tall just out power him on the straight and block him in the corners. If he hits you he will just bounce off. Oh and too give you some hope that 117 fag was bringin up the rear of the beginner pack two seasons ago.
 

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ok Andre (little kid on the 150) has only raced beginner 6 times including his win. He has two podiums which are third place finishes. the other four races he was in anywhere from 4th-12th. Maybe like so many other people this year he is stepping it up, and yes, winning that race did boost his confidence for sure. He's 11 or 12 years old, the future of the sport, instead of complaining about his win, congratulate him. And novice might be to aggressive for him, like mikedabike said, "he's 3 1/2 feet tall" and experience is what he needs to be able to feel comfortable enough to step up to the next class, that win was exactly the type of thing that will give him that confidence. Besides the beginner class goes by the 10 point system. once you have 10 points your bumped from the class, he now has 9 points so he can race one more.(and most likely win) congratulations Andre for a great race.

JUNE 17, 2007 Horse Thief Mile. 4th

AUG 26, 2007 Horse Thief Mile. 4th

OCT 7, 2007 Horse Thief Mile. 12th

OCT 28, 2007 Button Willow. 3rd

NOV 18, 2007 Horse Thief Mile. 6th

FEB 17, 2008 Horse Thief Mile. 1st!!!!
 

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sandbaggin' - the why

It all starts with this little thing called contingencies. money, parts, service.

If you can get a hundred or two, or three per event in any type of contingency, you can use that to offset your racing costs.

You get the best contingencies by winning.
It's easier to win by stepping down a class or two.

Make your own circuit between several districts and styles (harescramble,GP,sumo,mx) when in general you can step down a class if you haven't raced in the style for x amount of years.... you stay in shape, get faster but can easily move backwards by running 1 season in each style and/or district - because it's permitted.

I think that's the big secret to sandbaggin, but I could be wrong.

:bike:

.
 

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beginner class gets no contingency. so that wouldnt be the reason in our case.

i think its either ego, or people wanna have the feeling or be able to say "i got 1st place"

id think it would get boring to race and be in the front so far, youre always alone. id much rather be racing/watching a close competitive race.
 

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Most road racing organizations force riders, regardless of size or age, that dominate a class to move up every year. They do this for 2 reasons: first safety, it does nobody any good to have someone that advanced mixing it up with people just learning. 2nd, It causes just what you are seeing here, new riders quiting or not even trying because they are to intimidated. Could you see jumping on a track with pro's your first time out?

My question is, especially for this kid that is kicking ass, why would you continue to ride with the slower guys if you are trying to develop as a rider?

For the older guys that sandbag because they need an ego stroke, thats just sad.

just 2 cents from an old road racer.
 

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Most road racing organizations force riders, regardless of size or age, that dominate a class to move up every year. They do this for 2 reasons: first safety, it does nobody any good to have someone that advanced mixing it up with people just learning. 2nd, It causes just what you are seeing here, new riders quiting or not even trying because they are to intimidated. Could you see jumping on a track with pro's your first time out?

My question is, especially for this kid that is kicking ass, why would you continue to ride with the slower guys if you are trying to develop as a rider?

For the older guys that sandbag because they need an ego stroke, thats just sad.

just 2 cents from an old road racer.
ok his first beginner win and 3rd podium in the class. HE IS NOT SAND BAGGING.
 

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Never said he was. just asked why he doesn't move up. You podium 3 times in novice at WSMC or WERA and they move you up. They don't even give you a choice. My point was that if he is trying to develop, he is not going to riding with beginners.

My comments were geared more towards the guys that never move up, and they know who they are. This isn't exclusive to this organization.
 

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Okay, I'm the guy out at practice, that didn't show up for race day.

First off, you folks are damn fast! I think I was by far the slowest bike on the track.

Well, maybe intimidated isn't the right word. Hey it didn't bother me when you blitzed me there Casey :lol:

I'd say it was more that I didn't feel prepared mentally. I felt that I was just riding around the track in "survival" mode. Only towards the end was I able to start to think about all the stuff Gary teaches (braking, trail braking, clutch control, throttle control, U to V, blah blah blah).

All of you were very helpful and gracious in putting up with me and my DRZ (hey I didn't see anyone else out there with a license plate!). Don Canet was encouraging and so was Brian, Brandon, Casey, Don, and all the other folks I met on Saturday.

I'll be out there sometime this season, but I just need to get a bit more practice time where I can think about what I'm doing and to become more comfortable with my riding.
 

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So on a fast track like horsethief a bunch of grown men on 450's got spanked by a kid on a 150. I think I know who needs to step up.:lol:
What a guy. I was just noting how fast that kid was. No school no training and riding on the street for less than a year. Dont you think if I could have caught him I would? Duh! The kid was hella fast and will be spanking your arse as soon as he's grown a bit. As for me, I obviously have a lot to learn and will continue to show up and have fun.:D
 

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i dont think the lil guy is the issue. im thinkin it was more of a general statement made about some of the people who place well in the novice class (say top third of the pack or so), but still enter beginner classes. last year at the stateline race, someone who got 2nd or something in beginner also got 2nd in novice. that would be, in my definition sand baggin.

theres no doubt a big speed difference between beg and novice, so for those who are racing way up front in whatever class it is, theyre not getting any faster by not chasing anyone.

maybe we should get together and try to organize a little practice day out at grange or something. id be down for that. heck $30 for all day....cant beat that.
 
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