SuperMoto Junkie banner

1 - 20 of 281 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I got my 690 a few months ago and like most people wanted to get it running like it should without all the restrictions.. So I read up on all the forums and found there were a lot of opinions about the factory maps (akra map is lean, evo1 map is rich etc etc) but no real data to back it up.

So I got myself a tuneECU cable and a wideband bung and started the upgrades.. (I already had a wideband from my car tuneing)







Personally I think that tuneECU is excellent and all that most people would need, I understand why people want to go the vortex route, but really, all you need fuel and timing which tuneECU has. The only thing that is annoying is the 15min idle after flashing the new map.

I also understand that people think that the vortex solves the jerkiness at low throttle positions, and it probably does this by using the TPS for fueling only, which you can kinda setup in tuneECU anyway (at least I think so).

I read through this guide which is great to get you started, but again, there is no data, just "dave said this is good.." stuff... (I also don't see why he is adding fuel in the trim table as well as the F table as the trim is added to both tables by default.)

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=13

Regarding the vortex solving the jerkiness, I noticed a huge difference when modifying the F-L switch points as shown and setting the throttle table to 100%. I believe that the F-L switch is the point at which the ECU looks at the F and L fuel tables depending on engine load, so setting them to 10 at low RPM is using for idle situations only, and setting the rest to 0 basically setting the rest of the RPM range and engine load to one map. Whether it is F (throttle position) or L (MAP pressure) I am not sure but the fuel trim is added to both maps by default so the changes should be visible.



Also, setting the throttle table in the EP.hex file is (i think) basically removing the electronic throttle out of the system by allowing 100% of the commanded input.



This has made the low throttle positions buttery smooth, at least for me. It is night and day difference compared to how it was stock..


OK, so on with the real findings..

I didn't run the wideband with the stock exhaust so I have no idea what it's like, but I got great mileage so I would guess it's pretty lean

If you are running the akra map with the akra pipe and the stock airbox and filter as it was designed for, the AFR's are great.. 14's while cruising and straight down into the low 13's high 12's when you open the throttle past 25%. I ran with this for a few weeks while my EVO2 kit was on it's way and had a few runs through the twisties and the bike ran beautifully and the pipe had black deposits at the tip.

In my searches I also noticed that not many people are touching the ignition advance! I have no idea why as this is where you can unlock good power gains.. As far as I know this bike is designed to run on 95 RON fuel and also have a factory (big) safety margin. I only use 98 RON so you can pretty safely add timing across the whole board, I mean the thing is idling with 9 degrees..

I have read that people using tuneboy are adding 4 degrees but i'm not sure where as I don't have the program and haven't seen any screen shots..

Once my EVO2 kit arrived I whacked it all on except the cam (not sure if I will use it or sell it) and loaded the EVO1 map which most people on the forums say is fine for an open airbox and exhaust, I left the o2 sensor enabled, and disabled the SAI and went for a ride.. It was good at light load, nice and lean, but way to lean under load (high 13s to mid 14's!)

I then decided to see what it was like without the o2 sensor enabled and it's pretty rich down low and a bit rich up top with 4% so I dropped it down to 2% up top and took some out down low.



I added 2 degrees from 8500rpm down to 0rpm and upto 100% throttle... I then added another 2 (4 degrees total) in from 20% to 100% from 2900rpm to 8500rpm and I have not heard any pinging at all..



I have the wideband display strapped to my handlebars and I used tuneECU to mark out the 25, 50, 75, and 100% throttle positions on my grip so I knew where I was. I am going to strap a camera to my chest and ride for some DIY datalogging..





If I were to get a new wideband I would get one with some inputs and logging ability like the techedge 2J9, or get the vortex tuning kit with the "coming soon" wideband input (if it weren't so expensive)



Wide band wiring and EVO2 intake assy.



**Update**

I went for a ride yesterday and it was still pretty rich under 25% throttle cruising so I took another 2% out in this area and made the timing a little less aggressive.. I have started to commit the trims to the maps just to make sure that they are going in. I will confirm in the diagnostics section once I load the new setup later today.

New fuel trim



New less aggressive ignition trim



Committed Ignition



If anyone has any information or experience with some tuning I would love to hear your opinions..

And if anyone has the vortex tuning kit or access to the ignition table I would love to see how much timing they are running and how much I can safely advance it..

Cheers,
Tai
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Interesting, and way over my level so not much to add here except that I´ll be following this one closely. Keep it up! :clap:

EDIT: Oh, and isn´t your wideband O2 mounted where the stock O2 sensor used to be? How can you even run with O2 enabled then?

EDIT2: Why do you want to advance the timings? My understanding is that you primarily want to avoid back fire/detonation so as long as this is not the case, you will be fine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
Good stuff, thanks for posting.

I had Dynojet PCIIIusb, WBC and the LCD on my previous bike and did a bit of work tuning it, so I can follow what you're talking about ... more or less :D

Certainly would love to get rid of the 3-4,000rpm stumbles when commuting :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Oh, and isn´t your wideband O2 mounted where the stock O2 sensor used to be? How can you even run with O2 enabled then?
Nope, stock o2 is still in place. Can turn it off and on with the wideband still installed.

Why do you want to advance the timings? My understanding is that you primarily want to avoid back fire/detonation so as long as this is not the case, you will be fine?
More timing = more power.. Yes, as long as you aren't detonating it's all good..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Certainly would love to get rid of the 3-4,000rpm stumbles when commuting :(
Do this step and let me know it it makes a difference.. It only takes a moment and can be easily reversed if you are unsure. My bike was really really sensitive at 3-4000rpm crusing and would lurch unexpectedly, now it is smooth as..

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
Wow. I just did the F-L Switch values to what you did, and changed all the values in the throttle table to 100. Huge difference. Feels like a normal bike now. I don't have to do weird clutch/throttle shit at those low 1st gear RPMs to prevent stalling or smacking my face in the handlebars. Just nice a smooth like it's supposed to be. It also seems to have fixed my starting issues, used to die at least 3-4 times. Now it revs up a tad more, instead of choking out and dying.

I'm running the akro map with a Leo Vince slip on and K&N pod filter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
With the pod filter you should be running the richer Evo1 map to account for the added air, no? Otherwise stalling issues are being asked for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
With the pod filter you should be running the richer Evo1 map to account for the added air, no? Otherwise stalling issues are being asked for.
Yeah I added quite a bit more fuel on the bottom when I installed it, and a bit more across the board at the top. I'm liking how it's running now so I'm keeping it as is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Urgent info

**DO NOT USE THE FUEL TRIMS THAT I HAVE USED**

I have been playing with the trims for a few weeks now and went for a ride yesterday to test one out and the bike started to idle very lean.. about 15.5.. I would rev it up and it would drop into the 13's and then idle again back into the 15's, not good..

I added more fuel in the idle part of the map and set out to do the idle reset.

With the AFR meter you can see it learning as the idle AFR sits in the low 12's and when the thermo fan comes on (about 8 mins in) I have been leaving it at that and riding off and seeing how the tune is.

What I have now found out is that once the temp is up and thermo fan kicks in and out the bike continues to lean out as it goes out to the 15 min mark.. I'm not sure if it was vapour lock or because I had removed fuel down low, but the bike would not run. It would start, pop and stop like the fuel pump just stopped.. not cool..

I have just put the stock EVO1 map back in with SAS turned off for the time being..

I hate all this adaptive crap in these ECU's :damn:

I might have to get a vortex and be done with it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
Interesting. Do you have the original KTM temp sensor or the turns-the-fans-on-sooner Suzuki one? How do you think putting in the Suzuki one would affect the riding? Your low rpm things still works nice though right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
I think you are on the right track. In my research and reading different threads on the forums, these big singles like fuel and have read that tuning this bike by a/f just doesn't work that well since the bike makes better power and better ridability with a significantly richer mixture. Much of my research and opinions are based on theories and testing by a member on the uk/german forums, goes by the name of highscore.

Add your fuel back to the idle circut, maybe even richen your maps throughout and try out a 12:1 target.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Do you think the changes to the F-L Switch parameters have anything to do with it?

Cheers,
Roy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
What I have now found out is that once the temp is up and thermo fan kicks in and out the bike continues to lean out as it goes out to the 15 min mark.. I'm not sure if it was vapour lock or because I had removed fuel down low, but the bike would not run. It would start, pop and stop like the fuel pump just stopped.. not cool..
I see that you reduced fuel down low with 4%, and advanced timings by 2 deg. Maybe just not adjust timings here at all? And 4% might be too aggressive.
 
1 - 20 of 281 Posts
Top