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Discussion Starter #1
See for example:
1) Extreme supply
2) Motorcycle Superstore Closeout
3) Motorcycle Superstore selection
for example I liked the "AFX FX-35 Skull Helmet"

I'd like to know your take on a cheap, but good quality offroad helmet that I could use on my daily commute. If my speeds average under 70mph, would a offroad helmet work, or please advise on the recommended top speed for comfort with one of those? I wear earplugs, so noise isn't the issue, just don't want to rip my head off if they can't handle high speeds!

I'm commuting in HOT weather, routinely over 95degrees in houston, tx, high humidity. I'm wondering if the offroad would ventalite much better and prevent the stuffiness of the Shoei rf-1000 that I have?

I can't afford any of the Hornets, arai hybrids, etc. I already have a good helmet, just am interested in something that might help for hot weather, and a good transition for whenever I get a supermoto as well.
 

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Vega Mojave. Less than 100.00,

google motorcyclist magazine "Blowing the Lid Off" if you're afraid of it

not having enough protection.

I picked up one for off roading and I like it just fine.
 

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A few of those were Fly helmets. I loved my Fly and it held up great. It did it's job in a nasty high side on the pavement that knocked me out for a few seconds (the only time I've ever been KO'd in my life). I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. :thumbup:
 

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I have a Scorpion and a Fulmer. Love them Both.

The Fulmer took a very hard hit to a 12 foot rock (with my head inside and 190lbs of semi-muscular body behind it). Helmet stayed in one piece and did it's job. Quite possibly the hardest crash I ever took and walked away with no head injury.
 

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Its not worth taking the chance of wearing a junk helmet on your head, especially on the street
 

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Its not worth taking the chance of wearing a junk helmet on your head, especially on the street
thats true and i agree... BUT, most all of the cheaper helmets like vega, gmax, afx, or whatever go through the same DOT testing as all the higher dollar helmets. so if they are DOT approved they are going to provide the same amount of safety as an expensive lid. youre paying for the comfort and brand name of the higher dollar helmets... and in my experience i had a $70 vega mx helmet that held up better to a 60mph crash than my $400 arai mx held up to a 25mph crash.. but they both did their job of saving my skull.. and thats all that counts....


So..... my $0.02..... as long as its DOT approved youre good to go
 

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thats true and i agree... BUT, most all of the cheaper helmets like vega, gmax, afx, or whatever go through the same DOT testing as all the higher dollar helmets. so if they are DOT approved they are going to provide the same amount of safety as an expensive lid. youre paying for the comfort and brand name of the higher dollar helmets... and in my experience i had a $70 vega mx helmet that held up better to a 60mph crash than my $400 arai mx held up to a 25mph crash.. but they both did their job of saving my skull.. and thats all that counts....


So..... my $0.02..... as long as its DOT approved youre good to go
You have to PASS D.O.T. to be approved, this does not mean every helmet that is D.O.T. is equal, some barely pass while sustaining much less damage.

Duh?:headshake
 

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Hey specter, if you buy the Duke, I recommend a full face street helmet, instead of the off road one, also you have to try on the helmet to see if it fits your head shape. It could cost 600 dollar, but if it doesn't match your head shape, you are going to hate it.
What are you using now on the 250? Why do you want to switch?

read through this (on the same site there are many helmets reviewed too):
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-faq.htm
 

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I wear my mx helmet and it sucks above 50mph always trying ride up and I find myself pulling it down. I got a Arai full face much better at speed on the road. I never noticed the problem while racing only while on the road, I think it is because of the longer time at high speed. I think the HJC helmets are good inexpensive helmets, being both snell and dot approved. I was at Iron Pony(www.Ironpony.com) in Columbus and they are having a good blow out on helmets maybe you could find something there on sale to fit your needs. Try something on first, as I liked a scorpion helmet and found one at the dealer, but was the most uncomfortable helmet to wear.
 

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You have to PASS D.O.T. to be approved, this does not mean every helmet that is D.O.T. is equal, some barely pass while sustaining much less damage.

Duh?:headshake


yes true... but if youre in an accident in which the helmet sustains damage your going to be replacing the helmet anyways (or at least you should).. so would you rather replace $400+ or $100. they both save your skull.. ok yes some might look better after the crash. whooptydoo its getting replaced so who cares what it looks like afterwards as long as it did its job
 

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I just bought my first mx helmet and I love it, I wear it all the time, my street helmet just stays at home
I got hjc csmx for less than $100 from a dealership.
Choose whatever fits your head!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
To clarify I have a shoei rf-1000, nice. Great for riding. But I was considering a lower priced (sub $150) offroad DOT approved for street use helmet. I heard better ventilation and feeling.

I guess though I'd better wait till i'm in TN with lower speed limit commutes. Right now on the Beltway, i'll average easy 80 mph to keep in decent flow with traffic, faster if having to move around (and thats probably only a few mph faster than the flow!)
 

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thats true and i agree... BUT, most all of the cheaper helmets like vega, gmax, afx, or whatever go through the same DOT testing as all the higher dollar helmets. so if they are DOT approved they are going to provide the same amount of safety as an expensive lid. youre paying for the comfort and brand name of the higher dollar helmets... and in my experience i had a $70 vega mx helmet that held up better to a 60mph crash than my $400 arai mx held up to a 25mph crash.. but they both did their job of saving my skull.. and thats all that counts....


So..... my $0.02..... as long as its DOT approved youre good to go
All helmets are not created equal/seperated only by marketing and cushy linings.

As pointed out whether you get a D- or an A+ you still get the same DOT rating. Would you rather have the doctor/lawyer/mechanic who barely passed, or the one the truly knows his shit and aced the class????

But lets look at the above statement and the DOT standard with the skepticism we should for the piece of equiptment that protects our head from things that wish to cause it harm. A D- wouldnt even be that bad if you actually had taken the test, but the DOT rating system is such a huge f*cking joke that it doesnt really matter what grade you got because the tests are incomplete at best and are tested to fatal levels at worst, and of course the fact that the DOT doesnt even test helmets before issuing certifications(if ever). The manufacturer is on the "honor system" and is expected to be truthful as to whether or not their product actually passes. Lets also remember that the certification isnt an onging progress(remember honor system) meaning that samples from the entire production run arent required to be tested. so lets say they actually test it, one of the first few helmets off the line, its good. Okay now EVERY helmet gets the DOT sticker, but whatabout they day/week that the resin mix was wrong and a few/few hundred/few thousand helmets were made differently than the original test product, well its okay the helmet already passed
The DOT also doesnt take into account what areas of the head are protected(ie its okay if your skull fractures as long as there wasnt a max of over 400g's), DOT doesnt test helmet retention(will the helmet stay on your head in a crash) DOT doesnt account for a wide variety of impacts(Snell does test for all these criteria)
Take a look at this TEST DATA from the NHTSA, its helmet testing for the past few years, first thing youll notice is helmets that failed, yup helmets that claimed to be DOT compliant but werent(yes theres some decent helmets in the fail category too) second is how FEW helmets they actually tested. If i were to guess I'd say that a hugely optimistic number would be that they test 5% of the helmets on the market in a year. Not good enough for me.

To all, do your research, look at what the DOT are testing(if its tested) Look at what the Snell Foundation is testing, look at what the BSI standard is testing and think for yourself how these things apply to how you ride your motorcycle. And come up with an educated and informed decision for your head protection based on an all the info thats out there for us. Buy the absolutely best helmet you can afford thats tested in a way that most resembles your riding preferences and then wear it. Have fun, Be safe. People care about you.
 

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that is all completely understandable and i wont argue it... BUT.. i was just saying from my own personal experience.... my $70 vega held up better in a crash than my $400 arai.... yes i know the DOT system is completely and utterly flawed and should not be used as a basis for buying. but a DOT helmet is still better than a "novelty" helmet (like my father wears with his big bad chopper that is nothing more than a thin piece of plastic that will not do shit if he wrecks.. but its a "helmet" so it keeps the police happy.)

basically....anybody buying a helmet should have knowledge on what they are buying
 

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You don't get it. Your crashes were not identical. I've crashed twice in my RF-1000 and its held up great! Oh wait, it didn't hit the ground.

D.O.T. ratings mean NOTHING, there are half helmets that are DOT approved. I wouldn't wear a helmet that wasn't at least SNELL approved, SNELL m2005 being preferable.
 

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All helmets are not created equal/seperated only by marketing and cushy linings.

As pointed out whether you get a D- or an A+ you still get the same DOT rating. Would you rather have the doctor/lawyer/mechanic who barely passed, or the one the truly knows his shit and aced the class????

But lets look at the above statement and the DOT standard with the skepticism we should for the piece of equiptment that protects our head from things that wish to cause it harm. A D- wouldnt even be that bad if you actually had taken the test, but the DOT rating system is such a huge f*cking joke that it doesnt really matter what grade you got because the tests are incomplete at best and are tested to fatal levels at worst, and of course the fact that the DOT doesnt even test helmets before issuing certifications(if ever). The manufacturer is on the "honor system" and is expected to be truthful as to whether or not their product actually passes. Lets also remember that the certification isnt an onging progress(remember honor system) meaning that samples from the entire production run arent required to be tested. so lets say they actually test it, one of the first few helmets off the line, its good. Okay now EVERY helmet gets the DOT sticker, but whatabout they day/week that the resin mix was wrong and a few/few hundred/few thousand helmets were made differently than the original test product, well its okay the helmet already passed
The DOT also doesnt take into account what areas of the head are protected(ie its okay if your skull fractures as long as there wasnt a max of over 400g's), DOT doesnt test helmet retention(will the helmet stay on your head in a crash) DOT doesnt account for a wide variety of impacts(Snell does test for all these criteria)
Take a look at this TEST DATA from the NHTSA, its helmet testing for the past few years, first thing youll notice is helmets that failed, yup helmets that claimed to be DOT compliant but werent(yes theres some decent helmets in the fail category too) second is how FEW helmets they actually tested. If i were to guess I'd say that a hugely optimistic number would be that they test 5% of the helmets on the market in a year. Not good enough for me.

To all, do your research, look at what the DOT are testing(if its tested) Look at what the Snell Foundation is testing, look at what the BSI standard is testing and think for yourself how these things apply to how you ride your motorcycle. And come up with an educated and informed decision for your head protection based on an all the info thats out there for us. Buy the absolutely best helmet you can afford thats tested in a way that most resembles your riding preferences and then wear it. Have fun, Be safe. People care about you.
SNELL helmets transfer more joules of force to your head than the softer DOT helmets do. This is a proven fact. Cycle World did a test on numerous helmets (Blowing the Lid Off was the name of the article) and the best performing helmet, trnsmitted the least amount of joules to the head form, was the cheapest. SNELL helmets are made to withstand SNELL testing which call for unrealistic hits "pointed projectiles" (page 7 of the SNELL standards www.smf.org/stds.html ) which require a harder shell which transmits more energy, joules, to the brain.
Of course you don't have to take Cycle Worlds word for the amount of joules transmitted, you can take SNELL's word instead-
www.smf.org/articles/dot.html
As you can see SNELL standards accept a max of 150 joules, much higher than the amount of force allowed by DOT. From what I've seen the EN (European standards) would be the best. Where SNELL is better than DOT is in the peak g's allowed in a crash.
According to the SNELL site
www.smf.org/articles/mcomp2.html
DOT does require a retention test, contrary to your post.
Lastly bear in mind that SNELL is nothing more than a business who makes money off of its certifications, period. The SNELL Foundation has ignored anyone, including Harry Hurt (for those of not familiar he was the author of "The Hurt Report"), who dared to question them. Ironically they are in the process of changing their standards to come in line with the crticism.
The controversy will go on for as long as the advertising companies can convince people that more expensive helmets are safer. Unfortunately that was NOT the case of the study done by Cycle World where the cheapest helmet outdid all others.
At the end of the day we each make our choices based on available info and our convictions, at least we're wearing helmets.

Edit: My bad, the article was in Cycle magazine.
 

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SNELL helmets transfer more joules of force to your head than the softer DOT helmets do. This is a proven fact. Cycle World did a test on numerous helmets (Blowing the Lid Off was the name of the article) and the best performing helmet, trnsmitted the least amount of joules to the head form, was the cheapest. SNELL helmets are made to withstand SNELL testing which call for unrealistic hits "pointed projectiles" (page 7 of the SNELL standards www.smf.org/stds.html ) which require a harder shell which transmits more energy, joules, to the brain.
Of course you don't have to take Cycle Worlds word for the amount of joules transmitted, you can take SNELL's word instead-
www.smf.org/articles/dot.html
As you can see SNELL standards accept a max of 150 joules, much higher than the amount of force allowed by DOT. From what I've seen the EN (European standards) would be the best. Where SNELL is better than DOT is in the peak g's allowed in a crash.
According to the SNELL site
www.smf.org/articles/mcomp2.html
DOT does require a retention test, contrary to your post.
Lastly bear in mind that SNELL is nothing more than a business who makes money off of its certifications, period. The SNELL Foundation has ignored anyone, including Harry Hurt (for those of not familiar he was the author of "The Hurt Report"), who dared to question them. Ironically they are in the process of changing their standards to come in line with the crticism.
The controversy will go on for as long as the advertising companies can convince people that more expensive helmets are safer. Unfortunately that was NOT the case of the study done by Cycle World where the cheapest helmet outdid all others.
At the end of the day we each make our choices based on available info and our convictions, at least we're wearing helmets.

Edit: My bad, the article was in Cycle magazine.
I dont think I ever said that DOTs actual standards were insufficient or faulty I did however comment on there implementation. The DOT standard i actually pretty good for what it does test, it isnt comprehensive enough though. You mention the Joules used in testing, dont confuse joules, or the energy transmitted to the helmet with G's or accelerative forces transfered to the head. Yes Snell uses 150J whereas DOT uses a max of 109(BSI is closer to Snell at 141, and EN is the highest at 157) but this is GOOD, they are providing the largest hit but requiring the head to recieve a lower maximum force. So even though Snell beat on the helmet harder the head isnt allowed to feel as much as the DOT is. Where the DOT is superior is in its time limits even though it has a higher peak, it isnt allowed to receive as much force for any extended amounts of time, even though Snell belittles this portion of the DOT standard and instead stays by their way of only recording max levels the DOT way is better(even though their max is too high) Think about, Snell doesnt car how many times you get hit at 299G's(299 times the force of gravity) or how long you are subjected to that force, so long as you dont hit 300. Sounds f'd up when you think about like that doesnt it??? Ever been hit in the head?? Every blow compounds the pain/injury doesnt it??? So the DOTs exposure limits are a GREAT idea. the EN standard has the lowest max acceptable force, obviouslt good, combined with the DOT exposure tier and youd have the perfect impact regimen. Snell also poopoos on the idea of the EN's kerbstone anvil, I think its a good idea, if you look at why Snell says it bad....well thats actually why its good. Snell also belittles the range of motion allowed in the helmet during EN testing, well again if youve ever hit your head you know that it moves around, so I say a more natural test is better, eh?
Snell(and BSI) also only test with one weight headform, they claim that head size doesnt affect head mass.....um, really??? Do we need to discuss this one? DOT and EN for the win here as well.

I stand corrected, the DOT does test retention, but only static retention(no movement involved) and thats where it falls short, Snell uses dynamic retention tests and so do the BSI and EN, who get the win on this category by having the more comprehensive and in some way tougher tests, the DOT nor Snell test for harm caused by the strap to wearer, retention/release durability, strap movement, or accidental release.....all things I think are important, how bout you?

All except for the EN standard test for puncture resistance, a good thing. BUT the reason the EN doesnt test for puncture resistance is because they dont allow punctures, they instead have a maximum deflection, meaning the shell must must deform no more than a certain amount and must return to within a certain amount of new after the deformation. Lets call it a tie....but I prefer no punctures :)

A key test that the EN and BSI perform and the Snell and DOT dont is an oblique test, or one for glancing blows. BSI and EN helmets are both tested on an abrasive rig that measure how well a helmet slides or how aggresivley it or any of its parts grip or snag on the ground, potentially twistig the helmet and neck. BSI/EN FTW.

We have discussed the shortcomings of DOT qualification and its administration but not Snells. Snell performs their own independent post release testing, meaning the Snell foundation itself tests and certifies the helmets(a good thing) BUT they do it once the helmets are already on the market. meaning the you could be buying a helemt before its even tested, to make matters worse they test in very very low numbers(reported as low as .004%, thats 4 out of 100,000!) and dont retest throughout production. BSI however is a prerelease test, meaning the BSI testing is done to helmets ready to be shipped, the test is performed on the helmets from that batch, and only certifications for that batch are given. Significantly more helmets are tested(5 for a production batch of 500, 13 for a batch of 501-1,200 and 20 for batches of 1,201-2000) no helemts reach the shelf without an earned certification, and the factory itself is inspected 4 times a year. This is BY FAR the most demanding certification procedure.


Again, no one standard is perfect, some are significantly better than others and hopefully a new standard in the very near future will combine the best of all for the safest helmets ever.
 
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