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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For those of you not watching the end of the "New race series..." thread, Cascadia Supermoto has published a first draft of the class rules and technical requirements for next year! Since this is our first year as a series, we're going to be figuring out what kind of motorcycles people want to race with us as we go, and as part of that we've published the class structure early so we can get some feedback from riders before we finalize anything.

Before we go any further, here's direct links to the class rules and tech requirements - please read them before asking questions!


Our goal this year was to try and have at least two classes for everybody who wants to race. With one heat and one main per class, that means everybody should get four starts and a practice at least. As with most series, smaller bikes can ride up a class and get more track time, and big bikes have a more limited class selection.

As the technical guy for the series, I'm opening this thread to get feedback from all of the potential riders next year. If you have questions about why we structured the classes this way, ask them here! If you have suggestions for changes, tell us here! If there's anything that you'd prefer to say in private, you can email me directly at [email protected].

HOWEVER, please keep in mind that all rulebooks are a compromise, and we're doing the best we can with the knowledge we have. Information is welcome, suggestions are welcome, insults and entitlement are not - please keep things calm and respectful.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks Colin, I've added the 690 SMC to the Quick Guide, along with the Duke 390 and Yamaha MT/FZ-03. In general, the quick guide lists some popular models to help people out, but it isn't intended to be exclusive - the long form of the rules that specify displacement limits and modifications are the "real" rules.

A word of warning on the bigger and heavier bikes - this is a supermoto series, we are planning to have jumps in everything but the asphalt-only class. If you're good launching your 690 off things, or are OK rolling the dirt while the KTM 560s and Husky 610s are clearing the jumps, the Open class is for you. If not, you'll be limited to Asphalt-Only.

We've got some basic rules for what we WON'T allow out on the track:
  • No sportbikes, even small ones like Ninja 250s. This is supermoto.
  • Nothing larger than a 580cc twin.
  • Nothing with more than two cylinders.
Just about anything else, if you want to bring it out, and you want to run it on the dirt, we'll find at least two classes for you to run it in.

Just off the top of my head, some bikes that definitely are not going to be legal, as in you cannot run any of the bikes I'm listing below with Cascadia Supermoto, sorry if that wasn't clear:

  • Ninja 250/Honda CBR300/Yamaha R3 - Sorry, this is a venue issue as I understand it; no full-sized and faired sportbikes. Although if you want to take the fairings off and run the dirt section including the jumps, we may consider you a supermoto - I'll need to talk to Case and Debi about this if anybody seriously wants to try.
  • KTM SuperDuke
  • KTM 990 anything
  • Ducati Hypermotard
  • Yamaha Super Tenere
  • Suzuki V-Strom (650 or 1000)
  • Suzuki SV650 (don't laugh, I've seen it...)
  • Yamaha FZ7
 

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Your regulations look more like they were written for wmrra than for supermoto. While they are great ideas, I think they are difficult enough that you'll have a hard time getting non series riders to participate.
 

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A word of warning on the bigger and heavier bikes - this is a supermoto series, we are planning to have jumps in everything but the asphalt-only class. If you're good launching your 690 off things, or are OK rolling the dirt while the KTM 560s and Husky 610s are clearing the jumps, the Open class is for you. If not, you'll be limited to Asphalt-Only.
Thanks for clarifying - that's what I figured. What are the biggest jumps we are talking about? I raced motocross for years but would be new to supermoto. My 690 is certainly no pavement princess... Perhaps my 990SM would be fun for pavement only.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Your regulations look more like they were written for wmrra than for supermoto. While they are great ideas, I think they are difficult enough that you'll have a hard time getting non series riders to participate.
Thanks for the feedback. Anything in particular we should cut, or slim down? I tried to cover all the bases I could think of while still keeping it clear, but clearly it's a bit long since we've had some confusion already.
 

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Thanks for clarifying - that's what I figured. What are the biggest jumps we are talking about? I raced motocross for years but would be new to supermoto. My 690 is certainly no pavement princess... Perhaps my 990SM would be fun for pavement only.
The metal ramps are 22" high but launch you. The KTM 690 and the Husky 701 will be fine off of them I would think.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for clarifying - that's what I figured. What are the biggest jumps we are talking about? I raced motocross for years but would be new to supermoto. My 690 is certainly no pavement princess... Perhaps my 990SM would be fun for pavement only.
Nothing too big for jumps - we're trying to keep things beginner-friendly, so if you've got MX experience, I don't think it'll be a problem for you. Unfortunately the 990 is not going to be able to run with us - we're excluding any twins over 580CC (basically, anything bigger than an Aprilia SXV550) to keep the bikes appropriate to the kinds of tracks we're running on, i.e. kart tracks like TCKC and MAC.
 

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TCKC in Richland, WA
Bremerton Motorsports Park, Bremerton, WA
Mac Track, McMinnville, OR

There will be good opportunities for large grids. At the high end of the displacement range, we have Open Advanced and Advanced Asphalt. It makes sense to me, but now is the time to voice concerns in interest in the structure we have in place. I'd expect to see 450 riders, also participating in the Open Advanced races.

I find the rules fairly simply. The sportsman class has the only lengthy rule section, with the intent of protecting the ideal of that class. I also have watched these rules develop, and so may be thinking it is simpler than those trying to digest it now for the first time.


Please, we are welcoming everybody to comment, this is the appropriate time and place to do so. Suggestions are more than welcome.
 

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A series needs to be open to the public to not only survive but grow. People want to come and watch and see a Premiere class. You don't have one. Pro's will not come out if you do not have a proper class for them. And I know for a fact that there are quite a few still in WA.



You are allowing smaller bikes to move up and mess with larger displacement classes but not the other way around. Either run the Unlimited class, or stay within your grouping I say. Nothing worse than spending time, effort and lotsa money to prepare, get shoehorned into only one classification and have to fight off other class entrants. I have seen races where people get injured from running a bike in a class they just should never have been in.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Tfunk, thanks for joining the discussion. I've got some questions for you about your suggestions - we're listening, and I'd like to understand better, because I think I'm missing some context.

A series needs to be open to the public to not only survive but grow. People want to come and watch and see a Premiere class. You don't have one. Pro's will not come out if you do not have a proper class for them. And I know for a fact that there are quite a few still in WA.
So, what do we need to make a class a Premiere class? Right now we have "Open Advanced", which is an unlimited, run-almost-anything class for riders with prior racing experience. The class doesn't have a cash payout, which was a choice that we made, and we don't require that riders have a Pro license or have won any championships in other series, but I can't think of any club-level series that does set entry requirements for Open Pro, other than "be fast enough and comfortable enough to stay safe", which is our requirement too. If you could help me understand what you see as different about a Premiere class that we don't have, that would be really helpful.

You are allowing smaller bikes to move up and mess with larger displacement classes but not the other way around. Either run the Unlimited class, or stay within your grouping I say. Nothing worse than spending time, effort and lotsa money to prepare, get shoehorned into only one classification and have to fight off other class entrants. I have seen races where people get injured from running a bike in a class they just should never have been in.
Well, to be honest I've never seen a race series that let larger displacement bikes run down a class. If you could show me an example of a rulebook for a series that did that, so we could see how to do that fairly, I think we'd at least consider the idea. Otherwise, I just don't see how that could work.

As for allowing riders on smaller bikes to ride up a class, that's something that will be done at our discretion. Just because riding up a class is legal doesn't mean we're going to automatically let an XR100 into Open Advanced. We're not going to allow unsafe speed differentials - if somebody on a Sportsman bike wants to ride Open Advanced, we're going to make sure they're turning the lap times to run safely with experienced racers on Open-class machines. I've seen plenty of fast guys on 450s and sometimes 250s more than keep up with riders on a 525, so although I understand that there can be issues there, we're going to do our best to make sure the races are safe and fun.
 

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Can you post a link on the Oregon forum as well? There is only a few of us down here but it might reach some more interested riders. Some of them might not check the WA forum. Thanks.
 

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Can you post a link on the Oregon forum as well? There is only a few of us down here but it might reach some more interested riders. Some of them might not check the WA forum. Thanks.

Done, I posted a new thread on it for you :thumbup:
 

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Looks Good! :clap:

I should have a BC Supermoto confirmed schedule after our AGM Feb 10.

Couple things I noticed:
I see all your dates are Sat? makes it tough for people who work saturdays (eg. bike shops) to come out.
Also the sportsman rules seem a bit tight not allowing engine/fuel mods - you may turn away a few street guys with built DRZ's etc that want to try racing & dirt & run a couple classes.
I think you could always add a pro $ class later if there's enough interest & $ to get them out with their 490's :D
Anything can be changed depending on who shows up to ride - its good to be flexible & open to discuss. depending on who is your rider base.

Look fwd to the final schedule with race locations!
Hope our dollar isn't 69 cents U.S. this summer!!
 

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Looks Good! :clap:

I should have a BC Supermoto confirmed schedule after our AGM Feb 10.

Couple things I noticed:
I see all your dates are Sat? makes it tough for people who work saturdays (eg. bike shops) to come out.
Also the sportsman rules seem a bit tight not allowing engine/fuel mods - you may turn away a few street guys with built DRZ's etc that want to try racing & dirt & run a couple classes.
I think you could always add a pro $ class later if there's enough interest & $ to get them out with their 490's :D
Anything can be changed depending on who shows up to ride - its good to be flexible & open to discuss. depending on who is your rider base.

Look fwd to the final schedule with race locations!
Hope our dollar isn't 69 cents U.S. this summer!!
Shawn,

We are making some changes as it is a tad WORDY lol. Saturdays were picked due to people and travel time for this first year. Next year we will add depending on the turn out this year same as Pro money class. ;)

Hey now, when I raced up there I paid full murican price not no .69 on the dollar lol
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks, Shawn! I'm taking a pass through the rules again this week to simplify them some more, and as you suggest we'll be opening up Sportsman to more bikes as part of that. The wordiness was my fault; as Ron spotted, I'm from a road race background, so I tend to err on the over-specific side. We're going to fix some of that and post up v1.1 within the next two weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Rules update

Thanks to everybody so far for your feedback! Based on the responses we got, both here and privately, we've updated the rules to make things a little simpler, and bring our classes a little more into line with what other clubs run. We've also now made the full rule book available; you can find that here: http://cascadiasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Cascadia-Supermoto-Rule-Book-and-Information.pdf.

Again, these rules are still provisional, and we're still welcoming feedback, but we think we're getting pretty close to finalizing things for 2016 for the supermoto races. We're still working on the full mini endurance rule book, but that's coming soon.
 
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