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I was wondering if anyone has ridden both a steel cr500 and an 3rd gen af. Preferably the cr125 (02-07) frame, because that is what I would convert to. I have heard that the aluminum is too stiff for sumo and that the steel cr500s are better for street.
 

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I was wondering if anyone has ridden both a steel cr500 and an 3rd gen af. Preferably the cr125 (02-07) frame, because that is what I would convert to. I have heard that the aluminum is too stiff for sumo and that the steel cr500s are better for street.
i havent ridden both, but that statement reeks of bullshit.

the chassis geometry might be too twitchy, or something along those lines.. but there is no such thing as the frame being "too stiff"
 

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No experience with CR 5hunnies (maybe someday though! :D). However, I have plenty of experience with steel and aluminum frames. The idea that stiffer is better is definitely not necessarily true. Steel frames offer more elasticity and built in spring type flex giving better feel. Steel is real! I personally prefer my springy steel frames.

For street, I can't see where one would be better than the other. On the track, with hot sticky slicks, problems may arise from one or the other. For kicks, seach Alberto Rocca here or on youtube.

CR5hunnie = outrageous. :bowdown:
 

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I haven't heard the too stiff statement. But all frames are designed with some flex in mind. I do remember when the '97 CR250 came out with the new aluminum frame some riders complained that it was "harsh" feeling compared to the steel bike of a year before.
 

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I havent ridden an aluminum but i think for a street tarder you would see little noticeable advantage by converting to steel. now offroad a totally different story i would take the aluminum sight unseen any day over the steel. eventually would like to get a 500 AF for the dirt...
 

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if you have a cr500 on the street it doesn't matter, either way it'll be bad ass! I'm jealous of all you (and by all you, i mean the few of you) that have them!

Its probably similar to with mountain bikes. For trials riding, a lot of guys love the steel bike feel over the slight weight advantage of aluminum frames.
 

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I haven't heard the too stiff statement. But all frames are designed with some flex in mind. I do remember when the '97 CR250 came out with the new aluminum frame some riders complained that it was "harsh" feeling compared to the steel bike of a year before.
I MXed a 97 CR250 2 times and never got on the bike again. It killed my arms. Honda put flex back in the Alum frame for about 3 years.

As far as comparing geometry/argonomics from a steel 500 frame to a Alum CR frame they are like comparing apples to oranges. The newer Alum frames and suspension components are worlds better.


.
 

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thats what I thought. I thought stiffer was more precise but I have ridden the aluminum bikes and I like my steel better.
sounds like you answered your own question
I'd take the alloy anyday but it IS like comparing apples to oranges... the steelie is by far more comfortable for street riding ( Phat seat ), easier to make fit a desert tank etc etc but from my house to 7-11, it wouldnt really matter to me. The aluminum may be more ridgid, but that isnt necessarily a negative drawback.... in my experience, the aluminum frame conversions flick quicker (steer lighter) and "feel" lighter, but when you get a little front end chatter or tankslapper laced with a heavy throttle hand in a corner because of "over-input" at the handlebars, you're most likely goin' for a ride
The steel bike is better to deliberately slide (Rocca)and its less aggressive steering allows you a greater chance of not getting thrown on your dome, it lends itself to "dirt track" a bit more, well at least the one i rode. Even if its only a few pounds, it felt alot heavier in the chicane where you go from edge to edge to edge..... i got tired sooner....either way i wouldnt consider anything other than comfort as NO ONE will really have an advantage from one frame to the next when you are talking about the "lap" times around your block on lukewarm DOT tires...even in the canyons on race compound, it is really the rider's personal style/preference that may determine which bike is "best"
 

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I have had three different variations of the CR500. All of which have been used on the track or trail.

1) First one was a 1990 steelie. Riding this steel beast on the track was definitly a work out. The suspension just didn't feel good enough to handle some of the bigger jumps. While trail riding, it felt great, except for the vibrations that came up through the bars that created arm pump in record time. Another downfall that I noticed with the steel frame was the horrible high speed wobble.

2) The second one that I have is a homemade AF conversion. The set up was with the 1990 motor from the steel frame above installed into a 2002 CR250 frame. This bike is unbelievable on the track (better suspension and frame geometry). As for trail riding, I did notice less vibrations through the handle bars, but that might have something to do with having much better bars that are also filled with silicone. The bike on the trails seems to be a little more difficult to find a rhythm on the tighter stuff. However it did get rid of the high speed wobble.

3) The third bike (currently under construction) is a 1987 CR500 motor that I am installing into a 1998 CR250 frame. This bike will be set up supermoto style and used for street riding. I will let you know my thoughts as soon as I complete this project.
 

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I do know that the 125 frame has a steeper head tube angle , so it will turn quicker but you'll get head shake faster. mike "teemtrubble" on banned500riders.com build one of these and it was the best convertion I've ever seen
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
sounds like you answered your own question
I'd take the alloy anyday but it IS like comparing apples to oranges... the steelie is by far more comfortable for street riding ( Phat seat ), easier to make fit a desert tank etc etc but from my house to 7-11, it wouldnt really matter to me. The aluminum may be more ridgid, but that isnt necessarily a negative drawback.... in my experience, the aluminum frame conversions flick quicker (steer lighter) and "feel" lighter, but when you get a little front end chatter or tankslapper laced with a heavy throttle hand in a corner because of "over-input" at the handlebars, you're most likely goin' for a ride
The steel bike is better to deliberately slide (Rocca)and its less aggressive steering allows you a greater chance of not getting thrown on your dome, it lends itself to "dirt track" a bit more, well at least the one i rode. Even if its only a few pounds, it felt alot heavier in the chicane where you go from edge to edge to edge..... i got tired sooner....either way i wouldnt consider anything other than comfort as NO ONE will really have an advantage from one frame to the next when you are talking about the "lap" times around your block on lukewarm DOT tires...even in the canyons on race compound, it is really the rider's personal style/preference that may determine which bike is "best"

Yes, I think I did, but I can go faster on my buddies 08 honda 250. This could be due to the hpsd (steering dampener), but the lightness makes it feel good. What doesn't feel good is the flat, hard, skinny seat and the height. It feels like I am towering over the bike. You look down and everything seems so far away. Like the radiators are gonna touch the ground and the tank is chopped off. But since I grew up riding 90's hondas, and still do, I might be biased because its what I am so used to. I like my big banana seats. Its so comfortable and puts me right in the "right" spot when riding aggressively, but is still good for long rides. It makes me feel like I am part of the bike, like it was designed around the rider, not: "here ya go, see if you can hang on" aluminum kind of design, where you're not even sure where to sit. It feels more like the bike is riding you, and thats coming from a 500 rider. I feel more disconnected with them since I am used to something that wraps around you more. To get a banana seat on an AL frame, you have no cushion left. I'll keep the steel.

Thanks for your input and helping me come to my own conclusion. I seem to figure stuff out on my own better when I ask about it first. Ultimately I need something as comfy as possible because I want to road trip with it. I might get a different bike for that, but I really love the half liter. I suppose a ktm or bmw would probably be best for a guy that wants to still have fun offroad after he's riding halfway across the country. If this was dirt only I would undoubtedly go AL.
 

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Sorry if this is the wrong place but how hard is it to put a 500 into a CR125/250 frame?
you basically cut the engine cradle from the frame on the front downtube and just behind the motor mounts, and fabricate your engine cradle from there.
then you use a bracket for the upper motor mount to the existing mount, and the engine is in there....
some heat treat the whole frame after that.. others ride it as-is...

theres some minor things, like slightly modding the fuel tank to clear the plug on some models.. or having to carefully watch front wheel to expansion chamber clearance... but for the most part, its just modding the frame to fit, then fiddling with little fitmet details until the bike is together.. if you can do the frame, the rest is a cakewalk.


theres step by step pics on bannedcr500riders.com
 

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alohar i dont know what gen...3?

yo homie i havent seen ya around in a while. you been ok? how is that hotrod of yours. what gen do you have again?
wassup bruddah! Im leading the vet 30+ points on my 05 CR250R 500 conversion... only 1 win but always near the podium... and im the only cat on an AFC500 and Ricky Pearce is riding vet40+ on a 97 steelie and always right up there too.... just been busy with racin' and i started my own hot rod fab shop.....my street bike needs some love..... i got a little pissed and hammered it flat out 5th gear wfo before it was warmed up enough and it locked up on me...a cold sieze......im an idiot......it skidded and i almost highsided before i got the rear wheel rolling again....then when i got down to about 10 mph when i was coasting to pull over i popped the clutch and it "unlocked"...then i limped it home rattling like a 42 to 1 compression motor on 5 octane fuel...... SO it currently sits in the garage needing a top end and probably a bore.....oh well you live and learn. Don't forget to GET EM HOT BEFORE YOU REALLY FLOG EM! I just got my kid a 82cc athena kit for his 65 and i fabricated him a mini laydown version of a junior speedway bike so he could try a little speedway skid in orange county http://mymotosite.com/Brad/Speedway...l Rally 2008/pages/Gumball Rally 2008 270.htm ....so needless to say im a little tapped lately to try to rebuild it, plus it'll be hotter than hades here soon, i'll get my street legal 500AFC dialed in before the fall... what about you? ditching your old motor for a zero hour piece after your hitching??? whatta cool engagement present!!!:D
 

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yeah if it sells it sells. if not oh well no biggie. i say that bike you built for the neighbor kid for sale on cr500 i think. money is sooo tight right now. im waiting on the frame from teemtrouble. i sent my head off to roostiousmaximus for the auto compression instal. makes it kick like a cr125. haha badass huh. there is a video on cr500 unter tech. look for the thread autodecompression. on page 7 i think. the video was in 10 degress weather and the bike was cold. amazing. but im hoping to have the bike done soon. i cant wait to raise the dead
 
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