What is the magic number for supermoto?

[bthomas9]

So I've heard this time and time again that some bikes are "too heavy" to be a "real supermoto". Some have said that anything over 400lbs, some say my Ducati HM (378lbs) is too heavy. KTM 690 SM is 63hp and 336lbs. 2008 KTM 950 SM dry weight 421lbs

So what is the "magic number" for weight to make something a supermoto? Is it a combination of weight / hp / torque? I have ridden the all of the above and there is a difference between all of them but I would classify ALL of them as supermoto bikes.

[Skully25]

dangerous area of discussion to what is and what is not a supermoto.

technically supermoto started out with converted dirtbikes and usually those don't weigh a lot more than 250 pounds sow......... in that case even my exc wouldn't qualify

[pimpdaub]

I'm with skully on this one.... TECHNICALLY, Supermoto is a converted dirtbike. Now while I'm drooling over your hypermotard, Its a sportbike styled to look like a motard. I would say a true motard is a dirtbike w/ street tires that you could take to an mx track & hit the doubles without a problem.

I realize by this logic my drz isnt even a TRUE motard. The DRZ is not made for heavy jumping. (DRZ's are trail bikes not mx bikes)

[knockout]

I agree, I say a supermoto is a dirtbike with street tires. Thats a "real supermoto". In this case, my DRZ is just as much a supermoto as a converted XR650L, KL650R, CRF450R, or YZ250. If it was designed for the dirt, but put on some street hoops/tires, its supermoto IMHO. I thnk the Hypermotard has joined the ranks of the KTM Supermoto 950 and Buell XB12 SuperTT. I call them Hypermotards, Ducati nailed it on the head.

[dennis]

I say the magic number is how little you spend on repairs when you lay it down

[Lincolnlock]

Originally Posted by dennis

I say the magic number is how little you spend on repairs when you lay it down

Exactly what I was thinking.

[phennliegh]

Less weight, less money, less to go wrong, less gets in the way.
However the defination of SuperMoto is up to each of us.
It is so much fun to go fast with less.

[Mr.F]

"Too Heavy" and "Real Supermoto" are a matter of opinion.

[Wolfe]

Well I would say my xrr is pushing it weight wise. Too big and heavy to do any real supermoto riding. Trust me I still slide and ride hard but a lighter bike would be nice.

[loko]

The magic number would be "69". And im sure i dont have to explain why either. But i will say IMO, i believe supermoto is a bike thats capable of performing both on and off the streets and performing about the same on each......I look at it like this.....If you can bring it anywhere ur buddy wouldnt bring his GSXR. Then you have a supermoto, LMAO....And IF your buddy does bring his GSXR, i bet he doesnt keep up, LMMFAO.

[lowercasee]

I also believe that a "true supermoto" is a converted dirt bike (ie. wheels, tires, and brakes). Things like the 690s, 610s, Hypers, Xmotos, etc. fall under the street tard / street moto category. Not that they can't be competitive in the right hands, just not what you're going to see on the tracks for the races.

[Mr_Snips]

150hp and 150 pounds would be perfect...

[Sixty-Three]

magic number ?? "0" .. as in paid for !! LOL.....

[lammyracer]

I don't think that the hp is so much an issue (as long as it can get out of it's own way!), but something that weighs very much over 300 lbs. and has LESS than 8" of suspension travel just doesn't add up to supermoto type riding. Sure you can take a 1950 Vespa off road and it has street tires, but that don't make it a SuMo, same goes for something like a Suzuki Gladius with a Supermoto style front fender and some handgaurds.

My Husky isn't exactly a CRF450, but it'll hit a tabletop jump, and hold it's own on a kart track.

[Surg]

How about if it has dual calipers on the front its NOT a SUPERMOTO!

My superduke is NOT a supermoto. It's a naked sport bike with supermoto attributes.

HyperMotard- NOT a supermoto. Sorry to bust your bubble...

A Supermoto is a lightweight race bike. The lighter the better, no need for headlights.

A Street Tard is a slightly overweight Supermoto since it needs all the DOT crap. It should also be able to do 100# miles to a tank.

But then again, what do I know..

[smrscott]

I don't think there is a "True" definition to supermoto. What started out as Superbikers, then Motard to Supermoto has been an evolutionary process over the years.

There are "Race" Supermoto bikes: Some are converted dirt bikes while some are turn-key bikes there were never dirt bikes but sold as supermoto race bikes. Most bikes are 240-275 pounds

There are also Supermoto Dual Sport bikes: Street Legal bikes with 17s and oversized brakes. Good for a little street, fire roads and a track day now and again - most bikes in this cat are between 275 and 315 pounds

Supermoto street bikes. Upright style bikes with a hit of dirt or dual sport styling with 17s and massive brakes. Hypermotard, BMW Mega Moto, Aprilia, KTM 950/990. Great street bikes with the basic ergos of a dual sport/street bike but cater more to the street. OK for a smooth fire roads and races like Pikes Peak if you are an animal. Heavy bikes around 400 pounds or more

[R6Tony]

To me a true supermoto is a converted motox bike.

However that doesn't make motard-style bikes any less of a motorcycle. In all actuality, the non-pure motards are better to live with everyday. Because they are not pure sumo's they can do a lot more things and can be a lot easier to ride.

While I don't consider my drz to be a true sumo, I consider it an excellent motorcycle and better suited for my needs than say a crf450.

[laohu69]

Originally Posted by loko

The magic number would be "69". And im sure i dont have to explain why either.

Ummm, no..............
"77" It's just like 69 but you get "8" more.

[surfaccing]

i was under the intention of supermoto as a converted dirtbike with street tire and maybe some bigger brakes. the average dirtbike weight in under 250lbs and can tear up a dirt track with the street tires u can tear up the assphalt. now headlights aren't necessary u just need the tires! so in theory if it didn't come from the factory all geared up to hit a dirt track as a race bike... then it's not a supermoto

their other designation as mention being, hypermotard and street tard.

i love the hypermotard cause its got plent of power, but i think it's too heavy!
the xr650 is a great trails/desert bike but too big and heavy!
the ktm 690smc isn't a supermoto, it's a street tard cause it weight like 330lbs or something like that, and it was desiged for the street! a great bike but no really something i want to take through a rhytm section at 40mph and then fly over a double!

thats just my opinion and everyone has them. so if everyone pitches their ideas i guess we could come to a general conclusion and draw it up, that way we have a definition for the modern day supermoto?

[JAlfredPrufrock]

Supermoto is not a type of bike, it is a state of mind.

[fast507]

First, let me say that the Duke, Duke R, Hypers, Tounos all have their fine attributes and a capable rider will be doing most if not all of the typical "supermoto" manuevers within reason and capability. (notice I didn't say safety, Where's that in the SuMo handbook??? )

Supermoto by definition is a melding of the moto and roadrace track. therefore the common attributes between the two would be: Wide, grippy rubber, high power to weight ratios, and specialized suspension. Seeing as now the slant is more toward the moto aspects with current track configs I would say that the converted dirtbike would be the true supermoto, that is, until the peramiters of the sport change as it evolves.
So, going on that logic, I'd have to say much anything over 300lbs would move a bike out of the "true" specialized motard category and into something more ubiquitous such as the "naked sport" or "dual purpose".

[fast507]

Originally Posted by laohu69

Ummm, no..............
"77" It's just like 69 but you get "8" more.

Or just take "68" and he'll / she'll owe you one.

[MAVEN]

For competition it probably 240-50, for converted dirt bike on the street its more like 315-330 depending on hp, beyong 330hp youre getting into just SM styled standards IMO or big world touring rigs.

I dont think there is truly a number though, I look at what was ridden in the "Superbikers" (thats what supermoto has always been to me, Xgames is probably closest now) by guys like Ward, Goebers,Rainey, Lawson, Roberts, Spencer, and thats what formed my passion for motorcycling and for the style of machines I like. Fast507 is pretty accurate in my eye as well.

[whyfly]

I refuse to be bound by someone else's definition.

[laohu69]

It is commonly acknowledged that SM grew out of the Superbikers races from the 1970's.
These races included both converted MX bikes & flattrack HD XR750's.
Hence the larger "motard" bikes would be considered SM bikes by strict definition.

[MountainMoto]

I always assume that the definition follows what's currently raced in the sport.

i.e. in stock car racing you wouldn't consider a "stock car" race car from the '60s as a stock car today. (sorry for the stock car analogy)

As such I would define a supermoto by what is currently being raced by the pros today. Duke, Duke R, Hypers, Tounos?? sorry, no race no honor.

[dmonmiller59]

As light as possible and as quick from corner to corner as possible is ideal, more maintenance than I'd like, but worth it. Kind of like a woman, but cheaper, and worth it.

[knockout]

Most of you guys are defining supermoto racebikes.

The question is, what is a "real" supermoto?

The answer - A dirtbike (mx, enduro, dualsport or otherwise) with smaller rims to fit better, street oriented, rubber. Preferably with a larger front brake.

Now for a racebike you'd be more specific and have actual numbers to compete against what is now being raced.

I suppose one could argue that Supermoto was birthed from racing and thats true. But it is a genre of motorcycle that has grown so much it has spread into the street, creating "street supermotos" I guess.

Either way I guess this could be a good guideline.
- 8"+ of suspension travel, front and back
- Under 300lbs.
- Dirt pegs and bars, as opposed to rear sets and clip ons
-16"-18" rims with street oriented tires

[laohu69]

Originally Posted by MountainMoto

I always assume that the definition follows what's currently raced in the sport.

i.e. in stock car racing you wouldn't consider a "stock car" race car from the '60s as a stock car today. (sorry for the stock car analogy)

As such I would define a supermoto by what is currently being raced by the pros today. Duke, Duke R, Hypers, Tounos?? sorry, no race no honor.

What's raced is specified by the rules which prohibit anything else. If you remember the Ape SX was not legal until 2 years ago & yet nobody would argue that it is not a SM.
DRZ400's are not raced on a Pro level, nor is Yamaha's 250, yet nobody would try to argue that they are not SM.
I own & run Grassroots Supermoto and have an "Open Class" which, according to the rules, allows anything someone wants to put on the track. If somebody wants to run a turbo charged Hyabusa over the dirt section I am more than happy to let them (for my entertainment value if nothing else). We've had KLR650's run (complete with fairing) & I've run my 919 (even jumped it) on the track. None of this could be considered SM bikes....but they have raced on a SM track. There is a thread on this forum showing a guy in CA who raced and SV650 (complete with fairing minus the catch pan) to a 4th place finish out of 10 racers.
I don't think you can limit the term just to what is currently raced in a sport. A Yamaha TZ750 is a GP race bike. It isn't a current one and couldn't begin to compete with a current GP bike but it is still a GP bike (& flattracker too, just ask KR ).

IMO what makes a SM is a converted MX type of bike. However that doesn't limit it to a specific engine type. There have been other types of engines stuffed into the frames which, IMO, doesn't then preclude them from being SM.
Neither does slapping slightly longer suspension and a handlebar on a sport bike a SM.

I think whyfly put it best when he said he refuses to be bound by someone else definition.

[MountainMoto]

Originally Posted by vaishu

The overall competence of the bike's chassis, motor and other components make me think this would make a good platform for an occasional trackday. KTM designed this motor for competition, so it should endure plenty of prolonged high-RPM usage, and we've established that the brakes and chassis are top-notch. A high-speed track would probably tire the rider, as there is no wind protection at the top speeds this bike is capable of, but at a more technical track like Sears Point or Streets of Willow this bike could produce a hero.

"Compared to a Ducati 999 or MV Agusta Brutale, the KTM is just as exotic, just as fun and exhilarating to ride."

By the time we get back to Scuderia to reluctantly return Don's bike, I'm ready to answer the question: is it worth $13,000? If you think any motorcycle is worth $13,000, then this one is. Compared to a Ducati 999 or MV Agusta Brutale, the KTM is just as exotic, just as fun and exhilarating to ride, and probably more comfortable and practical as a daily driver, what with its good fuel economy, parcel rack and comfortable seating.
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This is bonehead spam
This out of context nonsense is taken directly from...
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...rmoto%2006.htm

What's wrong with these A$$Hats?

[2tymr]

if people give you a double take when they PASS you on the highway, and it doesn't bother you...highways are just to get to more backroads anyway... then you are riding a supermoto.

[phennliegh]

I agree with Knockout; light weight, upright riding position, built for agility rather than top speed, with the KISS principle in mind. Riding philosophy is also part of the "supermoto" thing. Obstacles are to be defeated, they are a challenge, same as in dirt riding. This is real world street riding, at least for me inside the beltway. Racing, exciting and brings us improvements, but is not the primary goal of most riders. It seems obvious to me that we, as a group, are nonconformists; codifying, assigning specifications to the supermoto genre runs against our underlying values. Supermoto, I know one when I see one.

[redlig23]

i dont care what anyome says my 610 is a supermoto/street tard

[phennliegh]

looks like one to me.

[Tulok]

definitely a supermoto redlig23!
I think that 99% of bikes with tube trellis frames are NOT supermotos.
has a Single sided swing arm? probably NOT a supermoto
v twin? Probably not a supermoto.
has a caliper relocation bracket? probably a supermoto.
did it come with passenger foot pegs? If the answer is no, it's probably a supermoto.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/ktm990sm.jpg
not a supermoto

http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/5/5a/5a5a/19...upermoto_2.jpg
supermoto

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...irst-ride-.jpg
NOT

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8...ding064po2.jpg
yes

http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/..._side_view.jpg
yes

[bthomas9]

"I think that 99% of bikes with tube trellis frames are NOT supermotos.
has a Single sided swing arm? probably NOT a supermoto
v twin? Probably not a supermoto.
has a caliper relocation bracket? probably a supermoto.
did it come with passenger foot pegs? If the answer is no, it's probably a supermoto."

It can do this on the weekends and perform the way it does on the street, who wouldn't want one.
I think I will call it Agent Sumo because it is a hell of an imposter.

[flailer]

Originally Posted by dmonmiller59

As light as possible and as quick from corner to corner as possible is ideal, more maintenance than I'd like, but worth it. Kind of like a woman, but cheaper, and worth it.

My new sig. Thanks very much DemonKiller, err ahh Miller.

[Deadend]

Originally Posted by Skully25

dangerous area of discussion to what is and what is not a supermoto.

Not really! Allow me to continue....

its not weight, but some key boolean values (true or false ) - in no particular order :

• is there enough clearance to not case the bike off a 3foot drop (with rider on it)
• Parts : are hand levers and shift / brake levers the only parts you replace after most "bad" crashes?
• Can you ride up and jump it off a 7stair staircase? ( while statisfying the prior two requirements!)
• did you remove the passenger pegs or were there never any to start with.
• when you ride the bike in the dirt, you are not concerned about "laying it down and scratcing the plastics?"
• if you took it to an MX track on a saturday morning.... seriously would you ?
• even if you satisfied all of the above - what if it was plated ( street legal ) - lets say u go out, jump the fuck out of it, and can you still ride it 30miles home?

if you answered yes to all these "yes"

5bucks says ur doing it right

[uberninja]

Pretty much any other bike: You're pissed at yourself because you crashed it.

Sumo: You're pissed at yourself because you DIDN'T crash it.... now you know you could have gone higher/further/longer.

[qikazel]

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Well I would say my xrr is pushing it weight wise. Too big and heavy to do any real supermoto riding. Trust me I still slide and ride hard but a lighter bike would be nice.

Why do you say this? My XXR weighs 306lbs with fuel.