Got my first real 'tard ride today

[Rick_a]

I got to ride a box stock DRZ400SM home. I'm a short guy, (5'8", 30" inseam) but the seat height wasn't a problem at all. The narrowness really helps. The power was underwhelming to say the least, but definitely adequate. Getting around traffic was no problem. I actually got less air on it than on my Buell, as it accelerated much slower towards my favorite railroad crossings than I am used to. That was definitely disappointing. I'll have to use more runway next time. It is as fun as I expected. Getting the thing around feels effortless.

It definitely cemented a couple of things:

1) I'd want a bigger bike, physically. Even though people say DRZ's are heavy, it feels like a scooter compared to anything I'm used to. Cruising on an uneven, stripped pavement surface also had it wandering around a lot more than I'm used to. No lightweight 450's for me. The whole bike felt more narrow than I'd like.

2)More power. I'd definitely want a big-bore single...I like torque.

I've rode a lot of bikes lately as my Buell is slowly being repaired. The only other tardish bikes I've rode are a couple Hypermotards. While they are a riot there are no illusions of that being a dirt bike. I jumped one and the landing had me sore for days. Riding a real motard is definitely an experience you need to feel to appreciate.

[GofastR]

Torque is in the stroke... and would you like cheese with the rest of your wishes?

Everyone in america wants more power, so don't feel like the lone ranger.

300lb likes will wander more that their 450lb+ 100hp+ counterparts...

We're SuperMoto riders, strike that - trouble makers, we want narrow bikes...

Glad you liked your experience IMO it's REAL hard to ride a tard coming from streetbike experience. You ride them more like a bicycle than a motorcycle, if that makes any sense. I have a feeling as long as you stay with it there will definitely be more to come.

[Wolfe]

XR650R. Thats the key!

[Short Fuse]

You have the same problem i had when i got my DRZ-S.
I've owned alot of bikes,everything from ,ZX12R,to XR250R.
I wreaked a DR650[Dirt set up]and bought a DRZ-S to replace it.I was alittle up set with the power.But the more i rode it the more i got used to how the motor wanted to be rode.
I learned the 400 has to be keep in a higher RPM to get the power.Like going from my Buell to my ZX6.If i snap the throddle on the buell at say 3000 RPM,it took off with the wheel in the air.If i snap the throddle on my ZX6 at 3000 RPM,well i get a bog'n sound and no reward.But if i snap the ZX at 7500 RPM hold on!
You just have to find the sweet spot and ride acordingly.The DRZ doesn't start pull'n till it fells like its vib'n itself apart.
Work the clutch and keep it in a high R,thats what works for me.
Once i did that,the DRZ is a great bike,and better sprung out of the box then most jap DS bikes,stays cool,and is basicly a cheap fun ride with alot to offer.
Play with it,gear'n,shitcan the not needed stuff,3x3 mod,jet it,good air filter,etc.It'll wake up,the more you ride it the more you'll like it!

[lunder]

I agree with shortfuse it takes some getting used to, I had the same issues you are having, a few mods and 15,000 miles later and I wouldn't want anything else ( in a single bike situation ) once you get used to it and learn where and when these things are fast you'll love it!

[GofastR]

XR650R. Thats the key!

x2, that would be my next recommendation to.

[Rick_a]

I learned the 400 has to be keep in a higher RPM to get the power.

I hear you about keeping the R's up. That's what I did, but my preference is torquier bikes. I'm used to, and prefer, the lazy big V-twin power over small displacement high rev power...just whack it open at any RPM and hold on. Probably the most entertaining bike I've rode is the Ducati Streetfighter...perfect...but for my uses probably excessive. In contrast I almost twisted the grip off an SV650 trying to get that thing going faster which while fun, gets old.

As far as supermoto's go, thus far the 625 SMC is the best fit. The ergonomics are perfect and the seat/tank are a perfect shape. The only bikes I haven't seen that I am interested are the SM610 and XR650R. One dealer had an in-the-crate '06 XR that they absolutely refused to uncrate. I asked them how they expected to sell the thing.

I still have plenty of time. The plan was buying something in the early summer, but I'm getting laid off for a month...so I'll probably be screwed for a while recovering from that

[GofastR]

Honda Nx 250 70mm x 64.8mm
DRZ400sm 90mm x 62.6mm
Husqvarna 610 98mm x 76.4mm
Honda XR650r 100mm x 82.6mm....

Tach, or "high in the rpms" is short stroke.

Low rpms, or low-end power is long stroke.

Bore is horsepower. (Equal bore and stroke is a "Boxer motor". They're know for very smooth, linear powerbands)

Those are just quick google searches, they could be wrong...

[Short Fuse]

I hear you about keeping the R's up. That's what I did, but my preference is torquier bikes. I'm used to, and prefer, the lazy big V-twin power over small displacement high rev power...just whack it open at any RPM and hold on. Probably the most entertaining bike I've rode is the Ducati Streetfighter...perfect...but for my uses probably excessive. In contrast I almost twisted the grip off an SV650 trying to get that thing going faster which while fun, gets old.

As far as supermoto's go, thus far the 625 SMC is the best fit. The ergonomics are perfect and the seat/tank are a perfect shape. The only bikes I haven't seen that I am interested are the SM610 and XR650R. One dealer had an in-the-crate '06 XR that they absolutely refused to uncrate. I asked them how they expected to sell the thing.

I still have plenty of time. The plan was buying something in the early summer, but I'm getting laid off for a month...so I'll probably be screwed for a while recovering from that

Well i know what ya want.
I was always a Vtwin guy.Shit i had a 138hp sportster.
I have a 01 XR650R[Plated dirt set up]Its a great bike,when you run it wide open.It don't like to be chuged,or stoped to idle to offten!And theres nothing like the magic button.
How much you look'n to spend?
Go look at a KTM 690SM,Duke,or if you got the stew,i want a Husaberg450/570SM!!!
Maybe just a liter Twin,Aprilia Dosoduro 750???
If you want to be a holigan,go single with laced wheels,if you want a nice easy lite supermotoish torque bike,Aprilia.
Just my two cents.

[Short Fuse]

Forgot a pic of the BRP.

[Rick_a]

Tach, or "high in the rpms" is short stroke.

Low rpms, or low-end power is long stroke.

Bore is horsepower. (Equal bore and stroke is a "Boxer motor". They're know for very smooth, linear powerbands)

Those are just quick google searches, they could be wrong...

Oversquare is when the bore is larger than the stroke, undersquare is when the stroke is more than the bore, and a square engine is the same in bore and stroke. The only engines I've heard called "boxers" in motorcycling are the flat twin BMW's.

What you've stated is true, though a bit over generalized.

Well i know what ya want.
I was always a Vtwin guy.Shit i had a 138hp sportster.
I have a 01 XR650R[Plated dirt set up]Its a great bike,when you run it wide open.It don't like to be chuged,or stoped to idle to offten!And theres nothing like the magic button.
How much you look'n to spend?
Go look at a KTM 690SM,Duke,or if you got the stew,i want a Husaberg450/570SM!!!
Maybe just a liter Twin,Aprilia Dosoduro 750???
If you want to be a holigan,go single with laced wheels,if you want a nice easy lite supermotoish torque bike,Aprilia.
Just my two cents.

What was done to your Sporty to get 138hp? I've got my Buell to 90ft-lbs and 100rwhp and it's fun as hell. It still has some in it, as I haven't got my hands on main jets big enough. What made you go IL-4?

I've looked at the 690SM and it's a bit too street oriented. My old-school ways make me weary of getting an FI bike, too...so the 690SMC is also out.

Spec wise the SM610 is the one to get. I put together a technical sheet of what I want and it's the only one that has it all. I've compared everything from engine technical specs to general chassis specs to fluid capacities and maintenance schedules to gear ratios and dyno charts. Professional and owner reviews have also been compiled over the past few years (I've been waiting a long time).

The Aprilia SXV is THE bike to have performance-wise, but I don't want to devote so much time in maintaining the thing.

The liter twins are too much. The KTM 950 and BMW HP2 are nice bikes...just too much of it.


I want something I can toss around, lay down, pick up and keep riding. I started on dirt bikes then bought a streetbike and am pretty much coming full circle.

[Moto_FL]

I got to ride a box stock DRZ400SM home. I'm a short guy, (5'8", 30" inseam) but the seat height wasn't a problem at all. The narrowness really helps. The power was underwhelming to say the least, but definitely adequate. Getting around traffic was no problem. I actually got less air on it than on my Buell, as it accelerated much slower towards my favorite railroad crossings than I am used to. That was definitely disappointing. I'll have to use more runway next time. It is as fun as I expected. Getting the thing around feels effortless.

It definitely cemented a couple of things:

1) I'd want a bigger bike, physically. Even though people say DRZ's are heavy, it feels like a scooter compared to anything I'm used to. Cruising on an uneven, stripped pavement surface also had it wandering around a lot more than I'm used to. No lightweight 450's for me. The whole bike felt more narrow than I'd like.

2)More power. I'd definitely want a big-bore single...I like torque.

I've rode a lot of bikes lately as my Buell is slowly being repaired. The only other tardish bikes I've rode are a couple Hypermotards. While they are a riot there are no illusions of that being a dirt bike. I jumped one and the landing had me sore for days. Riding a real motard is definitely an experience you need to feel to appreciate.

If you want something that you can flick around, wreck it, and keep riding, I would not recommend a bigger or physically larger bike. That just doesn't make sense. You're gonna need to make a compromise somewhere here, and just accept it.

[GofastR]

That just doesn't make sense. You're gonna need to make a compromise somewhere here, and just accept it.

yup...

[Rick_a]

If you want something that you can flick around, wreck it, and keep riding, I would not recommend a bigger or physically larger bike. That just doesn't make sense. You're gonna need to make a compromise somewhere here, and just accept it.

So what you are saying, is that a DRZ400 will crash better than a XR650R, 625SMC, or SM610? That just doesn't make sense. They weigh the same or less and aren't that much bigger except for displacement...

[Short Fuse]

Oversquare is when the bore is larger than the stroke, undersquare is when the stroke is more than the bore, and a square engine is the same in bore and stroke. The only engines I've heard called "boxers" in motorcycling are the flat twin BMW's.

What you've stated is true, though a bit over generalized.


What was done to your Sporty to get 138hp? I've got my Buell to 90ft-lbs and 100rwhp and it's fun as hell. It still has some in it, as I haven't got my hands on main jets big enough. What made you go IL-4?

I've looked at the 690SM and it's a bit too street oriented. My old-school ways make me weary of getting an FI bike, too...so the 690SMC is also out.

Spec wise the SM610 is the one to get. I put together a technical sheet of what I want and it's the only one that has it all. I've compared everything from engine technical specs to general chassis specs to fluid capacities and maintenance schedules to gear ratios and dyno charts. Professional and owner reviews have also been compiled over the past few years (I've been waiting a long time).

The Aprilia SXV is THE bike to have performance-wise, but I don't want to devote so much time in maintaining the thing.

The liter twins are too much. The KTM 950 and BMW HP2 are nice bikes...just too much of it.


I want something I can toss around, lay down, pick up and keep riding. I started on dirt bikes then bought a streetbike and am pretty much coming full circle.

88' Axtell kit,735 lift RedShift cams,S&S G duel thunderjets,really reworked buell thunderstorm heads,10.5 to 1 forged pistons,custom thunder header,etc,etc.
Dynoed,in a 96 hugger chassi,138hp,and 141flb,with a 30hp shot on the jucie.
Then i figured out,i was spend'n way to much money to be cool.
Scared the shit out of some kids on crotch rockets,in a straight line.It would have been better in my 99 cyclone or 01 Lighting chassi.I don't think it would have worked use'n the motor as a stress member.

[uberninja]

Those 88 axtells are the shiznit. I always wanted the 100 inch S&S, until Zippers came out with the 120 inch sportster. If I remember my prices right, it's about 3 grand for the 88 kit, about 8-10 for the 100 inch, and I have heard that the new Zipper is about 18k. That's a lot of coin for a Buell or Sportster engine, but I would love to have it. There are some truly nasty Sportster engines out there, just waiting for some unsuspecting squid.

How's 176 HP and 140 LB/FT from a turbo'ed 79 incher, or 143 HP and 129 LB/FT from a 100 inch all motor S&S? http://nightrider.com/biketech/hplis..._unlimited.htm

[GofastR]

So what you are saying, is that a DRZ400 will crash better than a XR650R, 625SMC, or SM610? That just doesn't make sense. They weigh the same or less and aren't that much bigger except for displacement...

What we're basically saying is, there's no pleasing you. You want this, but it's in stark contrast to that, and so on.

There could be something to a bike with less mass, and therefore less momentum.

But I'm tired of typing meow...

RECO MOTO TOUR 2009 : INTERDIT AUX PARENTS ( MOTO JOURNAL )


Supermoto / Supermotard @ montee ospedale 10.07 France - Part 1

Supermoto / Supermotard @ montee ospedale 10.07 France - Part 2

[SwitchThrottle]

The only SM you have ridden is a box stock DRZ, correct? A DRZ isn't anything special, but once you let them breath, and fuel them properly, they move out just fine. My Husky will loft the wheel from down low, but it also likes to rev to redline (pulls pretty hard the whole way). It's not insanely faster than my buddy's modded DRZ, but the power delivery is drastically different, and in drag race, he doesn't have a prayer. The trade off is I do about 3-4x the oil changes and valve checks he does.

[GofastR]

The trade off is I do about 3-4x the oil changes and valve checks he does.

Are the Husky's a screw and jam nut? Or shim-under-bucket?

Is it easy? Hard?

[Rick_a]

What we're basically saying is, there's no pleasing you. You want this, but it's in stark contrast to that, and so on.

What I am saying is that there are a few bikes I've considered that are a perfectly acceptable compromise, and that one in particular appears to be everything I am looking for. I have, however, rode none of them, and only fondled a couple in person...Mnnnnnkaay?

I want a slightly bigger bike with more displacement that's as flickable as a stock DRZ. Come on now...that doesn't seem impossible or very far fetched

[Short Fuse]

Those 88 axtells are the shiznit. I always wanted the 100 inch S&S, until Zippers came out with the 120 inch sportster. If I remember my prices right, it's about 3 grand for the 88 kit, about 8-10 for the 100 inch, and I have heard that the new Zipper is about 18k. That's a lot of coin for a Buell or Sportster engine, but I would love to have it. There are some truly nasty Sportster engines out there, just waiting for some unsuspecting squid.

How's 176 HP and 140 LB/FT from a turbo'ed 79 incher, or 143 HP and 129 LB/FT from a 100 inch all motor S&S? http://nightrider.com/biketech/hplis..._unlimited.htm

It was a fun,,,,,well money pit!
The only thing i ever rode that pulled harder,is my friends 235hp Triumph RocketIII!
Years ago it used to be all about the torque,,now days for me,its all about the turns!
I literly lost a filling once on the Sportster,because it vibbed so bad.It broke 2 rear fenders they shook so bad.You couldn't keep a tail light bulb in it,and once a week you'd have to go over it and tighten all the nuts and bolts.
The look on a guys face ride'n a 600cc,750cc inline four when you left the red light,,,,priceless!

[SwitchThrottle]

Are the Husky's a screw and jam nut? Or shim-under-bucket?

Is it easy? Hard?

shim/bucket, and they are crazy easy. I can pop the valve cover, check all 4, and have the valve cover back on and tightened down in about 15 minutes (10 if I remove the tank). I have only had one exhaust just out of spec on the loose side. They are 9.48mm, so I can run down to any dealer if I don't have one in the shim kit.

[loko]

IMO, not matter what u buy 450cc or bigger. It will be a long time before you will ever be able to ride it to its full capabilities. If its an MX style 450 then its even harder to tame. So it will take longer to learn to ride it near its full potential.......As it the sportbikes. The "kids" always want the biggest and baddest. But they fail to realize how much faster a Ninja 250 is in the hands of a slightly more experienced rider. Take it how u want to take it. But IMO, BIGGER just means more weight to throw around town.

[Rick_a]

My interest in a larger displacement bike is not to have the 'biggest and baddest' but to have more low-end and midrange power and something more streetable with longer maintenance intervals...something that could drone along effortlessly if necessary. I own a frikkin' '96 Buell fer Christs sake; obviously being the fastest kid on the block on the newest bike is not a concern.

I don't care if there is more weight to throw around. I'm not racing. My purposes are a pure street tard and daily short range commuter. I may ride some dirt roads or an odd track day but I have no illusions of doing any competition use.

I fuck around every now and then, but the days of trying to 'ride to the limits' on the street are long over...and frankly something few can truly do and irresponsible. Most of these guys will never hit the track 'cause they don't want to face reality.

I've been riding something since I was 15. I'm 32 years old now and have had the same bike for 8 years. I want a big single, and I plan to hold on to it for some time. No MX anything is going to serve my purposes. A heavier bike is not a concern.

[GofastR]

If you wanna see a 450 kicking streetbike azz, post 17 1st linked vid...

The rest are Husqvarna 610's...

and the bike the OP needs is recommended in post #3.