ride height question

[Rayman]

question....i'm just trying to get in on the SM pie, just bought a cheap XR650L (non-running, a project). i've been exclusively a street/sport rider w/ ZERO dirt experience. i'm used to sport bikes that i can stradle and either plant both feet or at least tip-toe. looking at the XR, even w/ the seat cushion OFF, there is no way in hell i can even get close to getting my feet down, and even if i lean it down to get 1 foot down, i'm pictuing the bike being leaned waaay down. i'm not tall, only 5-8 on a good day, i tried and i can't really even swing my leg over the frame as it sits. as it sits, the handle bars are almost at my shoulders when i'm pushing it around. should this be of any concern or is this how it's supposed to be? i don't figure it's too big of a deal and just the way dirt/SM riding is (except for a longer fall to the ground).

can anyone post any pictures of u standing next to the bike? list your height/inseam and maybe the seat and bar height from the ground? at worst maybe i'll look into having it lowered? thanks for the help

[psdavidson]

not sure with your bike but I am 5'6" with a 29" inseam. I barely tip toe my race suspension tuned R6. my dr650 is lowered 1" and I have better footing on it. the rear does compress some on the motards. sorry cant help you on your bike

[surfaccing]

ill get a pic for u in just a sec. mx riding is just like any other race setup, to the riders preference. most mx bikes are set up so when u put foot down u have ur toes to ur ball of the feet down on the ground. now trial wood/desert riding is usually done so ur flat footed but thats cause of the tighter turning.

u can adjust the height if u turn the metal tab on the top of ur shock.
ill get pics in a sec for ya

[PingKing]

Good info Surfac....

I have an XL600, which was about the same stance at my bro's 650L.
I swapped in a different shock and shortened the ride height on a set of CR250 USDs.
I'm tall, the bike feels low, I have thoughts of raising it up to XR/CR specs.

Check to see if anyone makes a lowering link for the rear. The front springs could be cut (properly shortened....or a spacer sleeve that can be removed), but they need to be disassembled to lengthen the top-out bumper.

A bike too tall is unsafe. You need to fit it comfortably.

The part circled in yellow is the top-out bumper spacer.
These were lowered 6".

[surfaccing]

my bike is actually about 2 inches too low for my liking as i like the more mx race style set up which is higher up. the race set should be at the high that when ur putting ur foot down should be as shown (i put my foot down in the proper ride height position). now if u aren't comfortable with this high setup, keep it low. the picture of me standing next to my bike is the height of a 33' inseam and im sitting flat footed on both feet, howerver this is too low for my taste.

the lower ride height has more downward suspension travel which isn't good for a mx track, but it is ideal for assphalt racing or communting as it is more comfortable. the higher ride height gives u more suspension travel in the upward dirtection meaning u can hit a speed bump faster and not worry about bottoming out ur suspension (or whatever u might run over with ur rear tire)


in the second pic my foot isn't flat, it's in a position were my heel is raised and im standing on the ball of my feet and the toes. thats the general mx race set up. my bike is actually at street commuting set up as im flat footed to make it easier to kick and more comfortable at slow speeds and stopped.

for reference the seat height should be the same height as ur waste or lower. any higher then ur waste and ur looking at leaning the bike over very far just to hold it up at a stop

[Rayman]

^^^ thanks for the input, very helpful w/ the referencing.

after i get back from the holidays, i'll stand next to the bike and check to see where the seat is relative to my waist. i guess it really doesnt seem THAT high compared to what u are showing me. im just not used to this style, as said, i've been all sport bikes previously, even my Z1000 is really just a sport setup that's more upright.

as for the lowering, i found a few lowering links for the XRs, here's what i read: i need to lower the front (by sliding the forks up the triple clamp - though generally not recommended) the same amount the lowering link lowers the rear. that's of course in addition to shaving foam off the seat. i really don't want to start messing around with the fork internals quite yet. i'll put the bike together first and if it's really an issue, i'll pursue that route further, but i'd def. wanna lower the bike a hair.

[surfaccing]

the rear shock spring is built around a thread and held down by a piece of notched metal. if u put a flat head screw driver and turn up the metal it lowers the ride height by decompressing the rear shock! the shock is basically held between a hold head screw and bolt. if u turn the bolt down toward the rear the tire it compresses the shock and raises the seat height, if u uncompress the shock by turning it counter clock wise it decompresses the shock and lowering the seat height.

if u have problems let me know ill take some pics and show u what i mean.

ohh ya and i recommend getting the bike so that ur flat footed on both feet when u put ur feet down, as ur from a street bike background, it's gonna be very uncomfortable to be that high from the ground and being uncomfortable on a motorcycle generaly means ur gonna be unsafe and hesitant in ur movements and that could be fatal!

and the point of moving ur front shocks up towards the handle bars isn't a bad idea. but u can only gain a few inches cause the shocks are gonna hit ur bars, cause u only have like 1in of clerance, unless u have raised bars. it's not a bad idea, but make sure u have everything tightened down. i wouldn't really recommend doing this, but i have seen it done and it's not unsafe.

[Rayman]

yea i understand the rear shock, like coilovers on a car, u can turn the "perch" up/down and adjust the ride height. but the lowering link i'm looking at (and was mentioned), i believe completely lower the rear the bike w/o changing the compression of the shock. i'm OK w/ only getting 1 foot down, but def. don't want to have to lean the bike over much to get that foot down.

[Rayman]

btw, here's a pic of the bars...

from the side, looks like the top of the forks are already a solid inch-inch 1/2 past the triple clamp




even if i have the space to raise them some more, i don't wanna do too much to upset the geometry of the bike and F up the handling

[surfaccing]

btw i love the bike and i agree with u the red does look bad...

anyways back on topic, i have never tried the lowering link but i have seen them and i have taken my shock out of my bike before and studied the link. if u buy a lowering link it is exactly the same as adding a lowering link to a street bike. so it's not a bad idea and ya it won't mess with ur compression ratings i don't think. but then again it's pretty easy to mess with the compression of the rear shock as it is adjusted by the nitro can attached to the shock. check with ur local honda dealer with how to adjust the shock cause i haven't done it in forever and can't remember how to do it.

i didn't notice how far up ur front shocks are already and i wouldn't mess with it anymore, as u said don't wanna mess with the geometry!

and ya the rear shock is like a coilover. "perch" thats what i was looking for. sorry im 17years old im not up to date with my vocab on parts.

[PingKing]

Bringing the forks up in the trees steepens the rake angle, which makes for quicker handling. There's a breaking point of nosing down too much and looking goofy.

[yerbetteroffdead]

when i was buying my bike i was worried about it being too tall for me. i tried to throw my leg over a 500 and i just couldnt do it. when i was talking to the guy who i bought my bike from, i asked him if he had any trouble sitting on it he had no problem and he was shorter than i am...im only 5'10 and i can touch the ground no problem. i dont know what kind of work has been done to my suspension but id like to find out..

[dermymoto]

At 5' 8'' I thought you would be tall enough rayman.try high heels dude!!sorry,only messing...couldnt resist!

by the way,what do you think of the new Z1000?I think they look fantastic and will be getting one in march or april after I sell my wife and child to stump up the £8000!!!

[junglepeanut]

5'5 with XR650R, previously zx-12r. Both I could never really put both feet flat. But once my weight compressed the suspension (140-150lbs) I could always get a toe to touch.

My buddies think it looks funny when I stop, as the XR is leaned over like I am in a turn but who cares it's fun on the road and I am not afraid of getting speeding tickets.

Jp

[surfaccing]

so rayman u back from the holidays yet? im currious to see what some more pics of ur project and see if we can't get ur ride height resolved

[drmotardmike]

Dude take it to an upholstery shop tell them to shave 3.75 inches of foam and keep it thin all through the length of the seat. I did it cost me about $35. A friend spent $400 on a custom blah blah brand. Don't spend money on a linkage kit either you want to preserve the stock set up.The rear suspension will sag about 1.75-2.o inches when you sit on it. Check my bike.I'm 5'5 too. drmotardmike

[surfaccing]

why bother taking it to a upholstry shop?

pull the seat off take the staple out of the bottom of the seat by prying them up with a screw driver and needle nose pliers. when u have the seat material off, put the seat back on the bike. sit on the seat and decide were u want to trim the seat down. get the turkey cutter out and start shaving down little bit by little bit. keep sitting on the seat and checking how u like it and were it needs to be taken down.

when u get the seat just right, take it back off, pull the cover back over and staple it back on with a construction grade stapler u get at the local hardware store and i think 1/2 or 1/4 staples...


motocrossers do that all the time. we used to carry turkey cutters to the track, so if anyone had a issue to the seat we did it right their at the track or if we felt like cutting ours down ourself cause the foam was getting worn out or something like that...

[Rayman]

so rayman u back from the holidays yet? im currious to see what some more pics of ur project and see if we can't get ur ride height resolved

yea im back, been busy at work....

well 1st off, i decided not to do anything to the suspension/ride height till i get it running to see if it actually needs lowering. and after ive been around it a bit more now, it's actually not as bad as i originally thought. the frame where the seat sits is just below my waist. i stradled it and at least w/o the foam there it doesnt seem like i'd have to lean it too far to get my other foot down.

just put the motor in the frame tonight, was that thing heavey or what....will get pics of it with me next to it this weekend.

[Rayman]

At 5' 8'' I thought you would be tall enough rayman.try high heels dude!!sorry,only messing...couldnt resist!

by the way,what do you think of the new Z1000?I think they look fantastic and will be getting one in march or april after I sell my wife and child to stump up the £8000!!!

from what ive read in almost all mags, US and UK, they have ripped on all the Z1000s that are NOT the 1st gen (03-05)....the worst being the 2nd gen. the lastest ones i dont know how they ride, but look OK, except the craziness that are the cans - which unfortunately seems to be the new market trend (see suzukis)

[Rayman]

thanks everyone for ur input, it sounds like i really shouldnt have too much to worry about. i should be getting this thing running sometime next week if everything continues to go smoothly and the motor is legit. will be updating...

[Rayman]

as for shaving the seat, i'll look into it, the seat needs a new cover anyways, so i might just trim some of it off.

[drmotardmike]

Cool.When you get your bike done post apic of you and your bike.

[surfaccing]

yo man if u need help with the seat... tell me and ill tear my cover off and show u what needs to be done. cause my seat is junk and i've been wanting a good reason to tear off the cover and trim it down. unfortunetly i probably won't be putting on a new one just yet but ill do it for ya if u need some pics to show u how it's done