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Thread: Need advice on an S440

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default Need advice on an S440

    So I found a '03 S440 with a blown engine for $1,300. Is this a good price? Is it worth it to rebuild?

    Where on earth do you find pricing on a rebuild kit for these?

    How hard is it to rebuild an engine on one of these? What does it entail? Do I have to have a machinist bore the cylinder?

    I've been trying to read up on the bike as much as possible over the past 24 hours. So far, I know the basics and that an unbalanced crank shaft is the culprit of the engine. Also, I know the water impeller has to be switched to aluminum one. Am I missing some other stuff?

    Any advice is appreciated. I'm new to supermoto world and looking to jump in on the fun.

  2. #2
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    Aug 2004
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    Utah
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    Default

    A Cannondale bike without the ATK upgrade and branding is worth about $800-1000 im my opinion. To upgrade the engine you are looking at about $500-700, assuming you have the Cannondale without any of the engine or ATK upgrades to it.

    So a blown Cannondale is worth about $200-700 as far as retail. Of course, just having the suspension parts is worth more than that; I'd say abovut $1000.

    Rebuilds are harder and harder to do, esp if it needs a crank. ATK which rebranded and bought all of Cannondale parts has but a few cranks left for these bikes and they are no rebuildable cranks so you can't rebuild it or have a shop rebuild it. Complete engines for these bikes are hard to find and are about $800-1200. Try cannondaler.com or the ATK Motorsports forum (do google search with those terms).

    If I were you I'd offer him $800 and look for an engine or part the bike out and keep the suspension components like I did.
    2001 Yamaha TTR-150L
    2005 CRF450X
    1998 Buell White Lightning

  3. #3
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    Jul 2009
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    Charles Town, West Virginia, United States
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    Default

    Hmm, betting this is the bike on craigslist near allentown? I was looking for this same info and google brought me to this thread
    -Joe

    You should be playing in the Riding Game

  4. #4
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    Feb 2009
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    Default

    haha yeah it is. the guy sold it over a month ago tho.

  5. #5
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    Jan 2006
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    Maryland
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    Default butcher

    good thing he sold it, hopefully to someone who would NOT butcher it, and part it out ... only 52 S440s were made. They may not have real value. But it would seem a shame to condemn it to that fate... I am owner of #3, and #32. One of those almost became a loss, but I got to it 1st. Good luck to the new owner. He'll be a happy rider, when he gets it back together.
    S440,EC200,RM250

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    A Cannondale bike without the ATK upgrade and branding is worth about $800-1000 im my opinion. To upgrade the engine you are looking at about $500-700, assuming you have the Cannondale without any of the engine or ATK upgrades to it.

    So a blown Cannondale is worth about $200-700 as far as retail. Of course, just having the suspension parts is worth more than that; I'd say abovut $1000.

    Rebuilds are harder and harder to do, esp if it needs a crank. ATK which rebranded and bought all of Cannondale parts has but a few cranks left for these bikes and they are no rebuildable cranks so you can't rebuild it or have a shop rebuild it. Complete engines for these bikes are hard to find and are about $800-1200. Try cannondaler.com or the ATK Motorsports forum (do google search with those terms).

    If I were you I'd offer him $800 and look for an engine or part the bike out and keep the suspension components like I did.
    I think Michalangelo has got some very bad information. Unlike the dirt bikes S440's are extremely rare and even with a blown engine should be worth at least $2500. With a true updated engine $3500 to $4500. ATK didnt have a clue how to make a reliable or powerfull cannondale so anything with their badging on it still needs updating. The only update they ever did was locktite the crank plate bolts. Cranks are plentiful and rebuildable if not driven to total destruction. When the factory closed there were massive amounts of parts and we are still drowning in parts 10 years later which is why they are so inexpensive to build. With such low demand the prices are dirt cheap for pretty much everthing.
    The only drawback to a Cannondale is they initially need a educated updating by someone who has taken the time to learn the details . What few hundred bikes and quads are out there are stall capable of winning championships.
    I apologize for the long post but it is frustrating to see so much incorrect information continually spread which affects what happens to these unique machines.

  7. #7
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    Aug 2004
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    Utah
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    Default

    Sorry but you're giving out false information and misleading people on a shotty albeit rare and unique, if not a terribly designed built and reliable bike, whether it's an S440 E or X400.

    I live in Utah, where ATK is based. I have been to their factory several times to have them look at my Cannondale/ATk, purchase parts and work on and buy parts for my previous Rotax engine 605. I have talked to their factory tech(s) about everything they did to the Cannondale bikes including engines/cranks. They did in fact balace most if not all of the Cannondale cranks as they were badly out of balance, which caused main bearing issues (this from ATK head tech) It's sad when even they insenuate you should get rid of the bike altogether so they won't ever have to deal with them again! It's great if you have tons of parts available in your personal factory, you're going to need them. I know last year ATK told me they had only a few cranks still available. After that...good luck.

    Look, I know you're in love with them. I was in love with them too...until I bought one and spent all my time trying to get it to be reliable enough to even run or stay running for more than a few minutes. I had it to ATK factory at least 2x's trying to have them figure out why it wouldn't start or when it would why it wouldn't stay running. And having to drop the engine from the frame to check the valves? Give me a break!!!! Just one of many terrible design flaws.

    I've yet to see one win a championship so maybe I'm not looking in the correct corners. All I know is everyone who has ever ridden/raced one says they were the most unreliable gawd-awful contraptions ever invented. I simply take offense to you and others misleading ppl who may consider this bike. Before I owned one and even the first few months of owning it I was the biggest fan ever. Who wouldn't want to own an American Made dirtbike? Unfortunately....the best thing an ATK/Cannondale owner can do is scrap their bike and wait for someone else to build one. BTW...I did make out pretty good as I still have my Ohlins suspension from parting my bike out! I loved the bike other than the terrible design flaws and unreliability. It was quick steering, unique and great suspension and breaks. But that was about it.

    BTW, I also know where someone is selling a complete engine. If you are going to keep your bike you may need it. It'll make valve changes easier! lol. Now all you have to do is swap engines out when your valves need changed. Total time: 5-6 hrs for valve adjustment/engine swap.
    2001 Yamaha TTR-150L
    2005 CRF450X
    1998 Buell White Lightning

  8. #8
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    Oct 2010
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    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelangelo View Post
    It was quick steering, unique and great suspension and breaks.
    its brakes btw.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2008
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    Default

    I understand your point of view being that it was almost entirely based on the ATK experience which for the most part I would agree would be correct and typical.
    ATK in their own arrogance and ignorance took advice from the worst in the business (WWE ,Southbay and Diamond racing) which spelled doom for most ATK built engines. To buy an ATK is the same as buying a nonupdated Cannondale if not worse as some of their mods like the WWE piston kits and welding up the holes in the crank porkchops destroyed many a engine.
    I was talking about the vast majority of current owners who did their research and built a Dale from Cannondaleriders.com knowledge base. It makes all the difference in the world as to money spent and service life of the engines. A far as dropping the engine to check valves its kind of a moot point as Cannondale valves usually last hundreds of hours and will still be in spec by the time its due a set of rings.

    As far as champoinships Neil Franchuck won the 2008 WSA open pro quad before retiring. Jim Mullen also won last years championship on the ice on his E440.
    The PA boys have been cleaning house with their drag Dales for many years.

    As far as your comment on parts Mappe the company who built the cranks had over a thousand of them on the shelf that were not paid for . We buy them by the pallet for updating . They still have hundreds left. Atk just had cranks from their factory purchase . ATK's sole interest from the start was to sell parts and cobbled together machines which they paid pennies on the dollar for. It was kind of our saving grace as most figured it in the first few years so not many had to go through the expensive learning process.

  10. #10
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    Sep 2010
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    Default

    Thanks Wisetech! My '02 E440 convert to SM is rock solid and has been since '02 and it gets ridden hard. (many upgrades however)
    The naysayers can eat all of their words, today, tomorrow or whenever, who cares!

  11. #11
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    Aug 2004
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    Utah
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    Good bit of advice and info. Too bad neither I or ATK factory could get my bike to stay running reliably. I do still have a nice 18" rear wheel, and throttle body for sale if you're looking for spares. PM me.
    2001 Yamaha TTR-150L
    2005 CRF450X
    1998 Buell White Lightning

  12. #12
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    Mar 2012
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    For future users who search this post:

    Anybody that bought a Cannondale motocross engine new for 12 grand it took to get one at the beginning of the Millennium was a sorry SOB. I mean I would have walked back into the dealer looking for a fist fight if i paid that much for a bike with so many little (and big) issues. They launched an alpha prototype to the world as a finished product. Then they adapted it with a constant stream of service bulletins and running changes that ended the companies short life. I know there was some poor engineer (like myself) screaming in the background to put on the brakes but nobody listened. BUT, they were onto something, and even though it had some bugs, it revolutionized the industry.

    If there's anybody to tell you about Cannondales, it's Wistech. I once paid too much for a blown up Cannondale on ebay. He and the others on cannondaleriders.com (awesome community) helped me to build a pretty reliable quad that I rode hard and loved dearly for six years. In that time, the only real failure I had was a cam bearing that was probably due to me not tearing it apart to re-shim the valves. That clattering motor has an incredible pull and a power band unlike anything else you can buy. It put a smile on my face every time I rode it. I can't speak for the bikes but the suspension geometry and really the whole chassis on the quad was SUPERB. That said, I did put more work into it than any other bike I have owned. Don't buy one if you don't like turning a wrench and reading a little history. I can tell you one thing, if you have it torn apart, you can't wait to get it back together. Those who ride them love them. I traded mine to a guy who owns 11.

    Motorcycle Porn:

    07 DRZ400SM

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