Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 94

Thread: How to lean W-A-Y over in corners?????

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default How to lean W-A-Y over in corners?????

    Hey guys,
    I just took the DR350 out on it's maiden SM voyage down a tight, twisty, hilly road with a 120/65-17 Mich. pilot sport (front tire) on the rear, and a 120/60-17 Power Race (soft compound) on the front. It's virtually a slick with a bit of tread to pass DOT.

    This thing is like freakin' GLUED to the road. Especially the front tire (Power race soft), the profile at the sides is virtually parallel to the rim, the tread wraps practically all the way to the rim, so theoretically, I have enough tread on the edges to virtually touch the bars to the ground.

    I am really confused though. I see all these pics of pro's leaning over so far they touch their elbows to the track and such. I was decked out and planning on trying my nerve, at least a little knee work.

    My question is this, Remember, this was my first time out since the SM rebuild- I have the shock spring cranked up pretty stiff so it won't squat much in the corners, and although the DRZ forks still have the stock springs, I was under power all the time so my weight was on the rear tire while cornering, and my FIRST time out I was dragging the pegs a few different times.

    HOW do these Pro's get the bike leaned over so far? Is the DR just that much wider? I was leaning the bike as far as physically possible because the pegs were grinding solidly on the road - I wasn't hanging off much, but there was NO WAY I could have even put a knee down, much less an elbow.

    What am I missing? The SM track wants sliders on both axles, the bar ends, and under the footpegs. If I do that, I may as well ride a cruiser around the track, I won't be able to lean it at all.

    I know sliding the corners isn't the fastest way to get around the track, but I'm not in it to race, I just want to have fun, and to me that means trying to touch my elbow, etc and see how low I can go.

    Do I just need a narrower bike? Or, since I only have a small rear tire, that is also limiting my ground clearance. A higher profile, and wider tread would provide more clearance, but not THAT much... and the widest I can fit is a 140, which limits my choices.. (has anyone tried a BT003RS for street use??)

    I have some slicks that are 125/80-17's, that would be a good bit taller, but I can''t run 'em on the street, and I can't afford to waste money at the track if I can't lean the bike over...

    Can any of you PLEASE enlighten me as to what I can do, or what others are doing, to allow them to lean as far as they want without grinding half their bike off?

    Thanks!
    Joe

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    220

    Default

    Suspension and body positioning are going to be my guess. And I'm pretty sure that's part of why you need peg sliders so they can drag/slide and not grip. Pros do some extreme stuff to make their bikes do what they do, I'm sure you will get some pointers but for now be patient.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    SK Canada
    Posts
    117

    Default

    Don't blame the bike yet. You should have your ass all the way off the seat to the inside. For your upper body position you can think about kissing the inside mirror.


    Here's an example.

    Last edited by evan; 05-25-2010 at 07:25 PM.
    Evan B.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    The SM track wants sliders on both axles, the bar ends, and under the footpegs. If I do that, I may as well ride a cruiser around the track, I won't be able to lean it at all.
    sliders dont limit how much you can "lean" your bike so im not sure what your getting at with that, people that ride knee out are not leaned over that far. If you want to drag a knee mabey you need to change up your style a bit? as far as draging and elbow i dont see the point unless your crashing lol, i have seen a vid of a guy do it, but good luck on that
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    also i know some guys used to rais there pegs
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    885

    Default

    I would probly look to start my increased lean angle with a different bike.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Thanks, everyone,
    Evan, I agree with the body positioning, Thanks for the effort of the pic. I usually am not on the seat much other than transitioning from side to side, Today was an experiment to see what the BIKE could do, without my changing the center of gravity by hanging off and going deceptively faster. I wanted the bike to lean, to see how it felt, and how it gripped at full lean. I just expected it to go a lot further over than it was able to.

    My long-winded point was, how do the pro's (or anyone who likes to slide low) have the clearance to DO it? I don't see SM bikes with rearsets or raised pegs, they look OEM.

    The point about the sliders was that it will in effect make the pegs even lower to the ground, and more easily grounded. True, they will slide easier, but I don't want them to hit at all until I'm leaned WAY over.

    My 1100 Kaw is MUCH wider, but with the suspension set stiff I can lean it as far as I want, I can easily put a knee down, (even without hanging off hardly at all if I get lazy) and there are NO chicken strips on my michelins at all. With the DR350, which is much narrower, and taller as well, I'm grinding hard parts on my first trip out.

    I'm trying to find out what other supermoto riders do to allow them these extreme lean angles.

    Anybody??

    Thanks!


    PS: How do you post pics on here?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    the peg sliders i have are only about 1/4 inch thick, no matter what you do the pegs are gunna hit, sure some bikes may hit more than others, but if your riding at that level they will hit.
    Last edited by prerunner32; 05-25-2010 at 08:32 PM.
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    ok here are a few pic of me the one backing it in is about as far out as i like/can go and be in controll, the peg is just grazed the ground, the other pic you can see the peg but its on the ground. are you trying to get super low "backing it in" or just turning? also the faster you go the more stable you are being "lower" at least to me lol
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Lake City, Florida
    Posts
    4,986

    Default

    I still love those pix PreRunner....very nice!!!
    "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!" -Steve Ashe

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    haha thanks
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prerunner32 View Post
    ok here are a few pic of me the one backing it in is about as far out as i like/can go and be in controll, the peg is just grazed the ground, the other pic you can see the peg but its on the ground. are you trying to get super low "backing it in" or just turning? also the faster you go the more stable you are being "lower" at least to me lol
    Hey, thanks for the replies everyone.

    Yes, what I was trying to do is to get "super-low" like I've seen videos, etc. of. I mean I have a pic on my computer of a guy sliding so low his foot looks to be at least 6 inches ABOVE and in front of the peg, (there is nowhere for his foot, because the bike is so low) his shift lever is pointing almost straight at the ground, and looks to be about 1/2" off the track. His elbow and his knee look to be about 8" apart, and they're both on the track. you can see his footpeg is hitting, but not that much.

    Granted, he's way beyond where I'll probably ever be, but I'm trying to figure out HOW his bike allows him to do that.

    If you can tell me how to upload an image from my computer, I'll let you see for yourself. It really is a hell of a picture.

    Thanks!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    go to the reply"the advanced" one there will b a paper clip symbole click that and it will let you upload a pic
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Here's the pic:
    That's how I wanna play...!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    SK Canada
    Posts
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sedona sunrider View Post
    Here's the pic:
    That's how I wanna play...!
    All you need to do to be able to do that is be able to ride like the guy in the picture I posted and Prerunner32 with your eyes closed. Then you're only a year or two of regular practice and training away from your goal. ...oh, and buy folding foot pegs.
    Evan B.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Here's a link to the video it came from, to me, this looks like the most fun you can have on 2 wheels, one knee, and an elbow.

    Tell me these guys aren't having a blast!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeUK6aOEJKo

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    I never said it was easy, I'm just trying to figure out how the bike can lean that far over, without anything significant touching down.

    In my case, even if I took my foot off the peg like he does, my footpeg would be pinned flat up against the bike, levering the tires off the track.

    I've had that happen before, back when I used to race a KZ1000R Eddie Lawson Replica back in the early 80's... I passed a guy and threw the bike hard into the corner, and leaned over far enough that even though it was tucked in tight to the swingarm, the header hit the ground and levered the rear tire loose, and the bike went spinning off the track.

    I'm just trying to find a way to avert a repeat performance...

    Obviously, the way his bike is set up, he has WAY more clearance than I do, and I suspect that many of you probably do also, I'm just looking for ideas or things someone may have learned that would help.
    Thanks!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    1,827

    Default

    I've never drug an elbow on a supermoto, but in my experience it's down to rider skill, bike set up, and body position. I'm a small guy, so when I ride full size bikes (not minis or GP bikes) it takes a lot of body english to get the bike to do what I want it to do. So I end up hanging pretty far off of the bike, and this results in things dragging. I never actually drug my elbow on purpose at race speed, it always came as an accident or as a result of tall inside curbing. My advice, do a trackday, it would help you tremendously. You can act like a goon like the guys in the video, and get away with it! And before you know it you'll need elbow sliders.



    '07 CRF 450x SM
    My supermoto videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadend View Post
    but yeah 481 wins CRITERIA MET.
    ./gives up his King of Internet belt

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Oh, I definitely plan to, many times, I just want the bike prepped first, and there's work to be done. I have to find more ground clearance somewhere, even if it means raising the pegs a bit.

    But, then there's the sidestand & bracket too, they would probably need to come off as well. That's what i'm trying to find out... ways of gaining more clearance.

    Nice pics...you? I always wanted to get more into roadracing than I did. I spent 2 years mostly endurance racing, and a season as a mechanic at the 1982 Daytona 200 for an HRC Pro Honda team, before I started working at dealerships. Partying with Kenny Roberts & the gang was a dream come true for a 20-year old kid, man those were the days!

    That's why I'm asking for input, I've never ridden SM before and I want the bike set up as good as I can get it before I get on the track, at least short of adding another 75cc's! (although the 376cc kit, bored out 35mm pumper carb, huge ports, and hand built 1-3/4" header have made a huge improvement in an otherwise slow bike.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fullerton ca
    Posts
    2,184

    Default

    that guy had some serious skills and a nice bike to do that, i have seen another pic or two of a guy pulling that off, i doubt anyone on this sight can do that at least with out crashing lol id say youd need endless track days and a crap load of crashes to get that lol for me i have no need to do that ill stick to racing haha but hey to each ther own and if you can ever pull it off make sure you get a pic! Good luck
    Team Damn Dummy (sttars)#321
    SupermotoUSA Pro racing #321
    06 DRZ400sm 52k+ still running strong (sold)
    03-08 yz450f was a good one but blew up and parted out
    2005 ktm450 smr- current race bike

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    [B]By The Way,
    How do you get the posts to forward to your email? I selected instant notification, and it still isn't doing it - what am I doing wrong?
    Thanks!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Wait.....you were a mechanic for a Daytona 200 team, but you're asking how to increase ground clearance!? I'm confused! 8)

    as far as dragging your elbow goes...honestly, while it may look fun....the type of elbow dragging 99.8567% of the racers in the world do usually results in some kind of pain & parts destruction. If you can do it, consider yourself special. & please post pics!
    Hopefully it's not of your xrays! LOL

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    510

    Default

    Did I read that right? You have a 120 size rear tire? That definitely would hinder lean angle. Going from a 140 to a 150 was like night and day on my bike. Pros like your picture run anywhere from 160, 165, 170, and 175 size rear tire slicks. In my opinion, supermotos are tall and should be ridden as such, lean the bike more than you lean. But technique is definitely a key.

    Say I'm coming up to a left turn, I sit my arse on the top corner on the outside (in this case right) of the seat, stick my left foot out and up a bit, and counter steer that sucker into the turn, basically shoving it under me and I weight the outside (in this case the right) peg and it feels lanted. I'm not an expert by any means but this style has worked for me, I havent dragged peg yet, but I wouldnt want to on the street. Never been a fan of knee dragging on a dirtbike.
    DRZ 400 - Sold
    Husaberg FS570 -

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Didcot, UK
    Posts
    325

    Default

    you're aware that the slower of the 2 guys is a World Superbike rider ?

    David Checa born on April 20, 1980 in Sant Fruitós de Bages, Barcelona, Spain is the 2004 Endurance World Champion. He currently competes in the Superbike World Championship.

    David Checa has been racing since 1996, contesting Superbike World Championship and Supersport World Championship races at home and in Europe. He spent 2000-2002 racing in the 250cc World Championship with a best overall finish of 13th before moving to Endurance World Championship. He was Pirelli's main tester for their Superbike World Championship control tyre in 2005, also doing a few races. He signed up for the Supersport World Championship Le Mans 24 winner and master endurance winner in 2005 and 3 wild car races in motogp in place of Elias for injury. 2006, but broke a wrist pre-season, he finished 11th overall. He continued in the Supersport World Championship for 2007 finishing 12th overall. He also won the 2007 Bol d'Or endurance race.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Shoreline, WA
    Posts
    535

    Default

    Here's my 2 cents, as a current road racer and Supermoto racer. Each bike requires a different style to ride. I don't ride my SM llike I do my road bike. On the SM I don't stick my knee out, I lay the bike over and stick out the inside foot. Ass crack on the other side of the seat and let the front tire dig. On the road bike, inside cheek off the seat, knee out, balls of feet on the inside peg, and head over where the mirror should be. Open up the elbows and hang off. I don't like sticking my knee out on my SM just because that much weight off the inside of the bike doesn't feel comfortable, probably because the speeds are so much lower with SM than road racing.

    In short, ride the SM like a flat track bike with your weight over the top of the bike, inside foot skimming the ground as you rail the bike. Pick up your elbows as high as you can and push the inside bar as low as you can. It feels like I am ready to drag my bars in the corner (I know that isn't true) and my pegs are definitely skimming the ground. I only ride knee-out on the SM if I am on the big tracks where corner speed is really high, otherwise it's foot out and bars down for stability. Look for pictures of dirt track guys with their outside (right) elbow really high in the air as they corner, that's a good example of riding an SM in the corners.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    O-Town, FL
    Posts
    3,711

    Default

    question: do you want to just want to have a sick lean angle or do you want to be faster thru the corners?

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Didcot, UK
    Posts
    325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daddysmut View Post
    question: do you want to just want to have a sick lean angle or do you want to be faster thru the corners?
    He wants to look cool

    Speed doesn't matter... getting laid does

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    O-Town, FL
    Posts
    3,711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weeksy View Post
    He wants to look cool

    Speed doesn't matter... getting laid does

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Escondido, CA
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    It takes alot of speed, brakes and more importantly SKILL. You may have the skill but you don't have the speed and brakes w/ a DR350. It looks great and I think it would be cool to do, but that isn't a race. That's 2 great riders railing a track for cameras. If dragging an elbow was the fastest way around the track then more people would do it. If you insist on more ground clearance, raise your pegs, and get short pegs or make them yourself. Fastway makes shortie that are pretty cool.

    Here's a better pic of a guy leaned over.
    Team Damn Dummy Racing #607 SEAN
    DDR "Making the poor man fast"
    SMX Racing -Southern Ca. Supermoto Race Series

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    SK Canada
    Posts
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    ...oh, and buy folding foot pegs.
    It's just a folding foot peg.

    Evan B.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Shoreline, WA
    Posts
    535

    Default

    Here are some links to me leaning the SM on the big track. I was mugging a bit, but there is room to keep tipping.

    http://studio819.smugmug.com/WMRRA/4...07674330_wGfY6
    http://studio819.smugmug.com/Adrenal...06965379_3KC2H

    Here's a pic of one fella just trying too hard to get his knee down. Way too far off the bike, it still has chicken strips and he isn't that fast. But, his knee is down. Take from this what you will.

    http://studio819.smugmug.com/Adrenal...06964582_RV9fr

    Basically, getting a knee down is an indicator of how long your leg is, not how fast you are going. You really do want to ride a SM on the slow tracks (or slow corners) with the foot out, it keeps the weight from tipping the whole apple cart onto the track. Knees on the ground requires speed under the wheels.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    482

    Default

    Theres a guy on thumpertalk that raised his pegs on a crf230f supermoto, I think it would be a ton more uncomfy but could work?

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    WOW, Thanks for all the responses, guys. I appreciate all your input.

    First, let me say I never intended to compare myself to David Checa or Dani Ribalta, not in this lifetime, anyway. I was just contrasting what was possible (lean angle) with nothing more than their footpegs folding a bit, versus my experience on the DR350 with the peg (although folding) dragging easily while I still have a 1/2" chicken strip left on the tire.

    I was trying to find ways of increasing the clearance, so I could use more of the tire.

    I realize that a wider rear tire will in effect "raise" the clearance at full lean, but a shortage of money and tire choices that will fit (140 max) limit exploring that avenue, as well as a new pair of SM boots. Sticking my leg out in corners with rubber-soled MX boots seems like suicide, because if it touches the road it seems like it will GRAB like mad, and end my ride fast.

    That's one of the main reasons I want the clearance to lean the bike as far as my skill level and courage will allow.

    I'm not interested in racing - on a DR350??? It would be a joke anyway compared to modern bikes. I'm just interested in having as much fun as I can, with what I have to work with.

    If my health hadn't killed my business, I'd be riding a KTM or such, but for now I have to be content with what I have, and make the best of it.

    I really appreciate everyone's comments, tech, riding style, etc. I'm new to SM, so it's all good info to me, and I appreciate your time in posting it!

    Thanks again,
    Joe

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Note that on the picture he's backing it in like mad. Lean your bike over in the garage and then crank the handlebars to the stops like on the bike in the picture. Notice you'll get the pegs go up since the front wheel is pushing up.

    I suppose to be able to do it it'll be necessary to learn to back it in and then immediately transition to a powerslide. I've seen Holden and other crazy fast dudes do that at our local track, they get it cranked over pretty well and yes Jake drags elbow on a sumo bike when he decides he's done with this set of tires and needs to finish 'em off
    Dmitry

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dakh View Post
    Note that on the picture he's backing it in like mad. Lean your bike over in the garage and then crank the handlebars to the stops like on the bike in the picture. Notice you'll get the pegs go up since the front wheel is pushing up.
    Finally someone points that out!

    In reality this is probably the dumbest question asked on this site in a long time. You are never going to be able to do that and in my opinion you shouldnt want to. Maybe Shervin could help you on your bike setup, that should help.
    07 Husky SMR510
    Gutted muffler
    K&N Filter
    Supermoto Engineering Sliders

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Escondido, CA
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    The only dumb question is the one that's not asked. I too at first thought this was a dumb question, but realized everyone at one time or another had a crazy question. Most people were to afraid to ask though. I agree that this is not necessary and this doesn't mean your fast because you can touch your elbow to ground. I think that if Sedona Sunrider wants to try this out then go for it I personally want to get around the track the quickest way and I highly doubt this is the quickest way. In terms of bike set up then you may need to do a few things. I don't think this post is going to give you the answers you need or even want to hear. If you want to drag your elbow then go drag your elbow. That is your right. Good luck and ride safe.
    Team Damn Dummy Racing #607 SEAN
    DDR "Making the poor man fast"
    SMX Racing -Southern Ca. Supermoto Race Series

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SMR 510RR View Post
    Finally someone points that out!

    In reality this is probably the dumbest question asked on this site in a long time. You are never going to be able to do that and in my opinion you shouldnt want to. Maybe Shervin could help you on your bike setup, that should help.
    Not dumb at all. I say more power to OP who basically wants to learn to do pretty advanced stunt tricks on an old pile of a dr350. Fine use of that bike if you ask me.
    Dmitry

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Remington, IN
    Posts
    1,380
    Items for Sale

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by damndummyracing View Post
    Here's a better pic of a guy leaned over.
    crikey! what track is that?
    it must have a decent amount of grip

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Hey everyone,

    Dakh, I've noticed that as well, but before I can even think of getting to that point (many years, and probably a new bike away), I need to be able to lean the bike more than is currently possible as it is set up.

    That's the main purpose of my question, not because I'm a hot dog wanna be, just to make the bike better. Sure, I'd like to be able to do stuff like that someday, it looks like a blast to me, but I'm being realistic and starting with simple clearance issues that limit my ride down even a twisty road.

    510, why so judgmental? I don't imagine you were born with a numberplate on your chest, someone, probably lots of people, shared their knowledge and experience with you to help you get where you are. I would think you, of all people, could relate.

    As I plainly stated, I'm new to SM, and don't have the bucks right now for another bike, so I'm simply trying to do the best I can with what I have to work with. I looked to the members of this forum for advice, because you have more experience.

    The obvious solutions I see are a wider rear tire, and progressive rate springs with a significant preload to keep the suspension from compressing so much in the corners. However, that costs money I don't have right now. That said, I know from experience that there are often little things that can be inexpensively done, that while not much in themselves, can contribute to making the bike better overall.

    DamnDummy, Thanks for your understanding. I agree, that's definitely not the fastest way to get around a track at all, but a DR350 is NEVER going to be fast around a track compared to today's bikes, I am merely wanting to have fun with what I have. The emphasis being on "fun", which everyone has their own opinions of, that's why there are different forms of racing - not everyone wants to go fast in a straight line, or spend life sideways around an oval.

    Me, I have an old bike in very good condition (freshly rebuilt & modified), and I want to have as much fun with it as I can, within it's (and my) limitations.

    I saw that SM video, and while I realize I likely won't live long enough to EVER touch an elbow without the rest of the body following suit, That video looked like WAY more fun to ME, than the motocross or roadracing I did 25 years ago.

    That said, all I want to do is get this old beast to handle curves as best I can. It's got obviously limited power, although it's by far the fastest DR350 I've ridden or raced against, it's got big brakes front & rear, DRZ forks, and lots of other specialty and handmade pieces.

    Does any of that matter if I were to try and race it? Not in the least, every bike there would walk away from me. Point being once again, FUN is the primary goal, and more ground clearance = more fun, to me. That's why I started this post in the first place.

    Thanks everyone for your replies, once again, and any and all worthwhile suggestions are always greatly appreciated!

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Ok stiffer springs and more compression might make your bike sit higher in the corner and increase clearance. What are the current sag numbers?
    Dmitry

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    2,384

    Default

    If you want to get crazy lean angles, you are gonna need a shit load of skill, big tires with a massive contact patch out back (165 or 170 slick) and a bike with a chassis and suspension up to the task. I just dont see getting a DR350 to turn like this, however Im sure you can have a lot of fun and learn to be a better rider on your current bike.


  42. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sedona sunrider View Post
    Here's a link to the video it came from, to me, this looks like the most fun you can have on 2 wheels, one knee, and an elbow.

    Tell me these guys aren't having a blast!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeUK6aOEJKo
    Here is another one 1 for you to watch

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_PrqTlMbA
    01 Suzuki TL1000R undergoing mods!
    07 Aprilia SXV 4.5

  43. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    952

    Default

    Sorry man, i guess i could have said that differently...And no that pic isnt me, its just a pic i found and liked...Haha. I think your question is actually how to get the most from your bike and lean angle is really only a small portion of the equation.

    If your question is how to get your bike to handle better then you need to get some suspension work done. Get your forks and shock valved for your weight and for supermoto, if this is out of your price range i would crank up the compression and try messing with it as well as the height of the forks in the tripple clamps. These simple things can make a world of difference. Good tires are also important, i know that some people seem to like pilot power race tires you have but from my understanding it is hard to get them up to temperature with the lighter bike. This will not necessarily "make the bike lean way over" but it should help make the bike handle much better. The real joy of riding a sumo is the fact that they are so light and can go from right to left before you blink and eye.

    These guys that you see leaned way over like that are on big slicks with bikes tuned day by day for track conditions...This isnt going to be possible with street tires on regular roads...Plus its these guys jobs to be good at riding, if i was as good at riding as i am at my job...Well we have all imagined what that would be like.

    You will also have to adapt your riding style to fit the bike, most pros seem to be using the "push the bike down under you" method. Look at all the pictures and you will see that unlike road racing their body has way less lean than the bike, of course this all depends on the speed of the corner as well as many other factors.

    All of that behind us, i would just get out there and ride it! I bet more seat time will help you figure out what the bike is actually capable of doing and i know that I personally dont do my bike justice but who really cares anyways?
    07 Husky SMR510
    Gutted muffler
    K&N Filter
    Supermoto Engineering Sliders

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Hey 510,
    Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your time.

    I was out looking the bike over, and I realized that the forks do sag about 3/4-1" just with the weight of the bike, so I'm trying to figure out how to get the DRZ forks apart, to add a spacer and give it some preload. These forks don't just unscrew like the DR forks did. Someone told me to back off the compression and rebound adjusters all the way first, then the cap should unscrew, and there is a 17mm nut that attaches to the damper rod. Once I loosen that, then supposedly the cap and spring as well will come out.

    The rear sags about 1-1/2-2" just with the weight of the bike, so it needs WAY more rear preload. I forgot that I backed off the rear preload the other day because I was teaching my roommate to ride it, and he couldn't touch the ground. That alone will be a huge improvement, and may give me enough room to get a knee down around some of the tight hairpin turns around the lake.

    How much sag should a properly set-up suspension have? With or without rider weight on board?

    DAKH, you mentioned crank up the compression damping, and I'm assuming back off the rebound a bit so it will tend to keep the forks extended, but not so much that it "pogoes" up & down between turns.

    Of course, a wider tire will also help as well. Sumo said Avon Distanzia's are the way to go for a street SM tire, and that their 140/80-17 dualsport is basically the same compound, and a bit taller as well. I'll have to save up for that though. I had been thinking B'stone BT003RS 140/70 dual compound, which would be a little shorter, and also easier for my little motor to spin.

    I hear they're running 150 rears on the new 250 sumo bikes now... are those 250's that much more powerful than my fresh 376cc with bored out 35mm race carb, huge ports and custom 1-3/4" hand built exhaust?

    I'm thinking of putting it on a dyno just for kicks, a race shop here said they'd do it for $20, or $50 with a jetting analysis, so I just have to schedule a time.

    I could kick myself now, because I passed on a brand new progressive rear spring a while ago, because I was spending the $ on the motor instead.

    I know I won't be doing any stunts like that for a while, and definitely not on public roads. We do have a great sumo track here (www.p1cartcircuit.com) so I do have a safe place to practice once the bike is ready.

    I spoke to some of the local experts there about running 120's F&R (slicks, which I already have), and they said that is what they use on the rental bikes there, and didn't think I'd have a problem with it.

    I know the "fast way" isn't laid over sliding, but that's what I grew up doing on my KZ1000R on the track. It was a 460#, 12,000 RPM screamer on a 130/90 rear Dunlop K391R Sport Elite DOT race compound tire, and I used to slide it all over the place, so that's what I'm used to. I didn't do it much during a race, because it costs you time, but I loved it in practice. That's why I'm trying every way I can think of to get as much clearance as possible, so once I put the slicks on it, I'll be free to lean as far as I want with my courage as the only limiting factor.

    I know I'll never be competitive with the current crop of bikes, so why worry about it, I just want to go out and play with it, and to me that means l-e-a-n it over and see how far you can go.

    I do have to ask about the "push the bike down" technique though - you can't do that with regular MX boots, can you? If your inside foot ever touched the track, it seems like the rubber sole would grab and the ride would be over fast. You would need specialized sumo boots, right? I have MX boots, and Sidi B2s, but no budget for another pair of boots. I guess that's one more reason for me to just lean it roadrace style...

    HEY, one more question - tire pressures - for such a relatively light bike, what is a good starting point (cold- 90-100 degrees here in the desert) for DOT tires when I'm heading for the twisties?

    Thanks for all the help everyone!

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Just so you'll know what this is all about, here is what I'm dealing with... Not much of a pic, but you get the idea.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  46. #46
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    KY-USA
    Posts
    2,957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sedona sunrider View Post
    How much sag should a properly set-up suspension have? With or without rider weight on board?
    HEY, one more question - tire pressures - for such a relatively light bike, what is a good starting point (cold- 90-100 degrees here in the desert) for DOT tires when I'm heading for the twisties?

    Thanks for all the help everyone!
    Sag with rider should be 25 to 33% of total travel. 25psi is a good starting point for tires. http://www.superplushsuspension.com/s-techsag.htm
    2007 RXV550SM/2007 KTM 690SM
    NO REMORSE / NO REGRET Previous Supermotos: 2008 SM510R

  47. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta/Decatur, GA
    Posts
    1,595

    Default

    One other side note about David Checa or Dani Ribalta dragging their elbows. If you notice in the video, Ribalta waits until the bike is done sliding, at the apex of his turn, then he leans over to touch the elbow.

    In your picture, he's actually crashing without crashing. He's using his knee and elbow to bring the bike back to it's tires.

    As far as getting your bike to lean over that far, we'll it's the same as getting to Carnegie Hall.... practice, practice, practice. Pick a goal for a practice session, figure out how to get to that goal and then go practice it in slow increments until you get it or decide it's beyond your abilities. Remember, discretion is better than plaster!
    http://www.mindspring.com/~mxcat/motard (Bike and parts for sale)

    2005 525SMR (For Sale),2002 520SX (For Sale), 1979 RM125,1974 TM400 (Machine of Death!)
    Formerly owned: 2003 Z1000,2002 CRF450R,1991 RM250,1972 SL-70, 1972 CT-70

  48. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    272

    Default

    hate to say it but you are asking us how to run a marathon while barely being able to crawl. These pics are of top level riders with bikes that have suspension worth more than your bike. They have race slicks, prob each have their own mechanic and suspension guy to help them set up the bike.

    You're running a dr350 with mismatched tires, that are the wrong size, wrong compound, on the street, crap suspension, etc. The lean angles in those pics are in a different universe than you right now.

    If you really want to be able to do that, I would suggest getting a properly set up bike, and be ready to spend a few years/ many thousands of dollars on track time, many crashes, etc. Those guys didn't get there from setup alone, in fact the bike is probably 1% of them being able to drag elbow. If you think you can be able to get anywhere close to that with some folding pegs or sliders, you're very sadly mistaken. Just like you're mistaken that your bike is leaning over as much as physically possible just because the pegs are scraping. These lean angles are like climbing mt everest, and you dragging peg or knee is the equivalent of starting to pack a tent and some boots.
    Last edited by pne; 05-30-2010 at 10:14 AM.
    08 WR250x
    09 R1
    98 KX250

  49. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    889

    Default

    People chill, OP explicitly states he just wants to make his bike better and not drag hard parts on every corner. Instead of telling him how that's not within sight, just help out with the actual question.
    Dmitry

  50. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sedona sunrider View Post
    DAKH, you mentioned crank up the compression damping, and I'm assuming back off the rebound a bit so it will tend to keep the forks extended, but not so much that it "pogoes" up & down between turns.
    This thing has rebound adjustment? It looks like a dirt suspension so I think both comp and rebound are so far off you can just stiffen them both as much as possible, but again I'm no expert.

    Quote Originally Posted by sedona sunrider View Post
    I do have to ask about the "push the bike down" technique though - you can't do that with regular MX boots, can you? If your inside foot ever touched the track, it seems like the rubber sole would grab and the ride would be over fast. You would need specialized sumo boots, right? I have MX boots, and Sidi B2s, but no budget for another pair of boots. I guess that's one more reason for me to just lean it roadrace style...
    IMHO you'll destroy boots either way, drag toes road race style or sides of the soles on MX boots. Riding foot out you can re-sole your MX boots or retrofit sliders.
    Dmitry

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •